Another "praise the Raptor" article

[TurnandBurn55]

I believe your quoted statement was IRT the Red Flag event, not the one depicted in the photo.

Brett

Well then the author is deliberately confusing the issue. The HUD picture in question popped up over a year before the Red Flag event, so saying that it didn't happen there is disingenius

Flathatter-- I'll guarantee you that's a Rhino HUD unless there's some new lot Viper or USAF jet with exactly the same display.

 

[Flathatter13]

I always selected my B/N's for their "flexibility" ... .... it came in really, really handy in the 'PO ... and just for clarity, we usually showed up alongside the tanker, day-VFR, sans helmets and flaunting our middle digits.

Just for dramatic effect ....

God I miss the "old days" don't you ???

 

[a_m]

Thanks for the link, very informative, but why after the F4 was called Rhino for so long didn't they come up with a new name for the new F18 or is more of a history thing since many of the 18 squadrons were once F4's

The reason I heard for it being called the rhino is because is has great low speed acceleration, but not as good at higher speeds (similar to the animal). Of course, this is just word of mouth from wso's.

 

[Brett327]

The reason I heard for it being called the rhino is because is has great low speed acceleration, but not as good at higher speeds (similar to the animal). Of course, this is just word of mouth from wso's.

That's a load of crap.

Brett

 

[Recidivist]

The F-22 is a waste of $$$.
How much more could be accomplished with the same money, and what fight is it going to fight in today's battlefield.
Pushing technology is great, and I'm a big proponent of development, but I also heavily favor pragmatism. It's disgusting what's getting sold upriver to buy these superjets.
As was mentioned earlier, F/A-18 comes in at something like 4 to 1 on acquisition. I bet the guys on the ground would sure as shit rather have the availability of four jets rather than one. Same for CAP missions, etc, etc.

 

[a_m]

That's a load of crap.

Brett

I never said it was right.

besides, I need to check post times before responding, anyway.

-edit- Looks like I found the active thread for the night.

 

[TurnandBurn55]

well if you will read back in the thread a little further you will see that I am not disagreeing with you, in fact I am confirming your statement that the hud shot on the page is not from an AF plane that I am familure with. Also you will see that there are actually three seperate conversations taking place on this thread.

Not trying to disagree with you, just confirming from my own experience that is a Rhino HUD... unless, of course, there is a USAF jet using the same one (which I wouldn't know about other than a few views on the internet)...

 

[Flash]

One of my longest timed engagements was me in F-14B vs. Israeli F-16 (two seat - what's that an N?) We did a warm up kind of like the snapshot drill, then did a sticks and stones 1v1. 5 Minutes and 28 seconds later the F-16 calls Knock-it-off for fuel. No shots taken from either side. So I would say a 10 minute engagement is a long time. However, I was tankless, so perhaps the extra 4k would have given me another 2 minutes relative to our fight.

That being said nothing would be better than calling the "Growler" the "Shocker." Picture the Headlines: "Iran attacks, US gives them the Shocker"

Depends on the version, they have F-16B/D and F-16I's (Block 50/52+). The B's and D's are just like any other but the F-16I's are basically a smaller Strike Eagle and can be distinguished by their big spine.

The big things at the top of the wing roots are conformal fuel tanks.

 

[bert]

As was mentioned earlier, F/A-18 comes in at something like 4 to 1 on acquisition. I bet the guys on the ground would sure as shit rather have the availability of four jets rather than one. Same for CAP missions, etc, etc.

That would be great to have three more jets. How exactly would we pay for the pilots, parts, fuel, maintainers.....?

 

[Recidivist]

That would be great to have three more jets. How exactly would we pay for the pilots, parts, fuel, maintainers.....?

spend less on the F-22. So maybe with crew you won't get a 4 to 1 ratio, but you'd probably still end up in a something like a 3 to 1.

 

[montellv]

Since no one on the page is 100% sure of the Hud lets just say it was a C-130J shot and really piss off some people.



At least that would explain the 178 kts.

I assure you all it is a Super Hornet. From the story I've heard, this happened during an exercise in Alaska with VFA-14 or VFA-41 (can't remember which since these squadrons were on either side of us in Lemoore). There is some video of it as well and the other HUD tape I saw showed the SH pressing the attack inside of the gun min range (for training rules).

I'll would love to entertain any other platforms however...maybe it was the deadly OV-10 Bronco.

 

[Shakey]

I assure you all it is a Super Hornet. From the story I've heard, this happened during an exercise in Alaska with VFA-14 or VFA-41 (can't remember which since these squadrons were on either side of us in Lemoore). There is some video of it as well and the other HUD tape I saw showed the SH pressing the attack inside of the gun min range (for training rules).

I'm no expert on HUDs, but a pretty reliable source told me it was VFA-11.

 

[montellv]

I'm no expert on HUDs, but a pretty reliable source told me it was VFA-11.

After further review...Shakey, you are correct. I guess my memory is getting bad in my old age. It must have to come to me from one of the Aces in the club or something.

You're right, I'm wrong, you're smart, I'm dumb, you're handsome, I'm not very attractive...

 

[Swanee]

spend less on the F-22. So maybe with crew you won't get a 4 to 1 ratio, but you'd probably still end up in a something like a 3 to 1.

Here is what I think:

The AF give up one of their new gold plated toys? Not happening. Though from the Va ANG guys who I know that are flying that airplane they say once the kinks are worked out it's going to be a great airplane, one that is much more capable than any other fighter we have in the inventory. This is coming from guys with 2k-3k hours in a Viper and then transitioning. So some guys have lost an engagement or two. I have also talked to the guys going up against it, they say that 99.99% of the time you die before you even knew they were there. I am pretty confident that you can't do that in a Viper/Rhino/Eagle with that amount of consistency. The numbers are near the same in the proverbial furball as well. I know that the Eagle/Viper/Hornet/Rhino probably didn't do that well at first.

So, is the Raptor the next step in fighter airplane technology? Yes. Is it invincible? No, if you can see it you can shoot it. However, the stealth helps that, and WVR, the thrust vector and agility that very large airplane is pretty impressive. Plus, it's a new airplane, the tactics are still being developed both ways; as we develop tactics to counter the airplane we will see more losses,. I think that's good. We don't want people going to war thinking that they're invincible.

So I think it's a good investment. We don't need 20 Squadrons of Raptors, but we need some nonetheless.

 

[Flash]

I will agree with you to a certain point on all the topics you listed but what is your answer for the statement above?

We currently have 530+/- F-15's in active and reserve status, if we only replace them with 120 F-22 what is going to fill in the gap, the F-35??? Not nearly the same type or quality of aircraft as the F-22, by this I am referring to range, TOT, payload, etc..

BTW - This is not an attack just a question I have been asking for some time now and would like to see his answer, or anyone else's for that matter on how you replace the capabilities of 500 a/c with only 120

I think the intention on the part fo the Air Force is to buy more when they have proven the F-22 'works'. Now that it is operational and starting to deploy it is going to be easier for them to ask Congress to approve more of the shiny new toys, ones that Congress usually loves to buy.

P.S. I believe the current buy is 186.