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Article Reviews Chinese Air Power in Transition

pdx

HSM Pilot
China in its thousands of years of history has not really demonstrated the ability nor that much deisre to project power on a large scale. IT doesnt take much to invade Tibet, their only defense really was a bad Brad Pitt movie and Richard Gere protests.
Things may change but there are some counterweights to the Chinese rise already in place, India is developing just as quickly and had almost comparable population, this coupled with their close relationship with Russia is a natural counterweight to Chinese ambitions in Asia

For centuries China was the center of intellectual, political, military, and cultural power in the far east. Why do you think so many unrelated asian cultures (including the Japanese) use variants of Chinese writing? Until the 1800's China was a power.

As far as the counterweights, their Russian relations are not that close. In many ways, they have closer relations with us than they do with Russia. There is a sort of general distrust of Russia. Plus, don't forget that Mao hated Stalin and had quite a split with him. India is big and developing, but I am not sure they have the same resolve that China has. Even the Chinese who are very disaffected with their government are quite patriotic.

I am positive that China wants nothing more than to be the center of the world that it once was. They view themselves that way, and it is continuing source of shame that they don't have more of a say in world politics. The question in my mind is how is China going to pursue these ambitions - economically, militarily, etc. I don't really think the Chinese are ready to go to war, but I do think our interests and theirs are going to come into conflict at some point.
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
I am positive that China wants nothing more than to be the center of the world that it once was. They view themselves that way, and it is continuing source of shame that they don't have more of a say in world politics. The question in my mind is how is China going to pursue these ambitions - economically, militarily, etc. I don't really think the Chinese are ready to go to war, but I do think our interests and theirs are going to come into conflict at some point.

China needs to actually be innovative first. They're awesome at copying stuff. They can even improve it. They've yet to develop something of their own that is truly innovative. At least in air warfare and naval warfare.
 

raptor10

Philosoraptor
Contributor
As far as the counterweights, their Russian relations are not that close. In many ways, they have closer relations with us than they do with Russia. There is a sort of general distrust of Russia. Plus, don't forget that Mao hated Stalin and had quite a split with him. India is big and developing, but I am not sure they have the same resolve that China has. Even the Chinese who are very disaffected with their government are quite patriotic.
Plus India has its own nuclear rival to worry about.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
China needs to actually be innovative first. They're awesome at copying stuff. They can even improve it. They've yet to develop something of their own that is truly innovative. At least in air warfare and naval warfare.

You telling me that Moo Goo Gai Pan isn't innovative? :D

Brett
 

pdx

HSM Pilot
China needs to actually be innovative first. They're awesome at copying stuff. They can even improve it. They've yet to develop something of their own that is truly innovative. At least in air warfare and naval warfare.

The Chinese have designed all sorts of innovative warfighting and sailing technology that the world had never seen before.

Fortunately, that was a few centuries ago. It's not like their society is incapable of it, they just don't currently have the structure to do it.
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
The Chinese have designed all sorts of innovative warfighting and sailing technology that the world had never seen before.

Fortunately, that was a few centuries ago. It's not like their society is incapable of it, they just don't currently have the structure to do it.

That was then, this is now.

I know what you're saying, but it doesn't matter. They aren't there anymore. They can get there though...
 

pourts

former Marine F/A-18 pilot & FAC, current MBA stud
pilot
More importantly, China recently acquired AWACS planes that are almost exact copies of the Russian model. I don't have a great citation, but this should work:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46477-2004Nov12.html

The most probable reason for a conflict with China (by a long shot) is Taiwan, as was previously mentioned. They are adding a huge number of missiles pointed at Taiwan every year. Sounds pretty scary but I don't think the sky is falling. They have a lot of potential internal problems on the horizon (bad bank debts, corruption, coastal-interior inequity, etc).
 

skidkid

CAS Czar
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Plus India has its own nuclear rival to worry about.

Who just happens to be a Chinese client state-seeing the trend Russia and India vs Pakistan and China. Those are the counterweights I was speaking about.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Flash,

No doubt you have loads more timely info, but the one thing I've heard several different places (in both class and unclass sources) is that the real threat that China has is time. They see things in a much longer timeframe than the west does, especially the US. At least Europe has a longer history, but they're not really threatened right now. The U.S. sees things in such short term ideas, but the Chinese are patient and in it for the long haul. An example of this is Taiwan. In China's eyes, they will get Taiwan "back," it's just a matter of waiting for the right time, be it a decade or more.

As for threat, and not that you'd answer, I'd say econonmy?

Sure China has time, but who says the Commies will stay in power and China will stay in peice? The Communist Party of China has use authoritarian means to keep its grip on power and that may or may not continue to work. The PRC has several very serious problems, like the fact that fully 1/3rd of the country does not speak Mandarin as its primary language http://www.cnn.com/interactive/specials/9908/china.glance/maps/images/language.map.gif . Its economy is becoming increasingly reliant on imported energy, going from being self-sufficient in oil to importing about 40% of its oil supply in less than 15 years. And most of that energy comes from Central Asian republics that were once part of the USSR, and the Mid-East and Africa. None of them are guaranteed to always be so friendly to China. In contrast, the top two foreign suppliers of oil to the US are Canada and Mexico, both reliable allies.

Other possible problems include a growing imbalance of the male to female ratio (fewer women), an extremely large migrant population estimated to be about 100 million, and rising discontent in the countryside: http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1122/p01s03-woap.html and http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/FK16Ad01.html

As for their military, sure they have a lot of toys.....like I keep saying......BUT, how well are those pretty Flankers going to be maintained by conscripts from the countryside? How well can their Sovremennyy's and Kilo's be operated if the crews change over completely every year or two (conscripts again)? Do they have the logistics expertise and the infrastructure to mount large scale operations to take over Taiwan, much less threaten their other neighbors? If their economy is reliant on exports, how well will they fare if their ports are mined and blockaded?

Someone to keep an eye on, of course. Long term threat to the US, probably. But do they have a whole lot of their own problems, on a much bigger scale than we care to imagine, yup.

As for the threat that makes me worry at night, try this:

DF-15.jpg
 

Zilch

This...is...Caketown!
Other possible problems include a growing imbalance of the male to female ratio (fewer women)...

That's gotta suck. I'd be worried about that problem in particular. Lots of angry men who aren't getting any because women are in short supply. ;)
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
That's gotta suck. I'd be worried about that problem in particular. Lots of angry men who aren't getting any because women are in short supply. ;)

Well according to South Park that's why there are Muslim suicide bombers.

Only thing the PRC is missing is sand.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
Well according to South Park that's why there are Muslim suicide bombers.

Only thing the PRC is missing is sand.


If that were true there would be more suicide bombings in Daytona Beach. High Dimension knows what Im talking about. ;)
 

jarhead

UAL CA; retired hinge
pilot
my 2¢

China is a country to be concerned with ... we shouldn't be naive, as they are biding their time. if China decided to take over Taiwan next week, there is nothing we could do about it, and if N Korea sees that escalation as a good time to mass troop along the DMZ, we'd really be up a shіt creek ... it doesn't take a genius to see the US military is ass-deep in the Middle East. it also doesn't take a genius to know our gear is currently hurting right now - old and worn out ... and if we haven't learned that the Israelis are only out for their own good and will sell our trash to anybody who will pay them a good sum, then we're gonna pay harshly in the future. we are idiots (well not us warfighters, but politicians who whore themselves out to the defense industry)

s/f
 
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