Aviation instructor career path

[scoolbubba]

Guys coming off shore duty already current and qualified would be a better choice. Even if you get just one more 3-4 year tour tour out of them, it would still pay for itself. Plenty of JOs would bypass the airlines to keep flying.

PERS would end up not increasing the billets at the VTs though and then wondering why the production numbers didn’t go up.

 

[AllYourBass]

My admittedly numbskull questions after reading the NAVADMIN are as follows:

1. What will the quotas look like?
2. Can PFI personnel hop platforms at three-year intervals (i.e., start VTs, then FRS, back to HTs, or any sort of combination like that)? Or are you going to be the Mr. Miyagi of the T-6B or the TH-57, but not both? EDIT: If my prior production tour was HTs, I don't think per the NAVADMIN that selecting for PFI will limit me to HTs...just curious whether I can switch to something else once I'm already serving my first PFI tour.
3. Does this suck up FTS/reserve spots, or augment them? I still have a lot to learn about how FTS/reserve careers work, so it's definitely an ignorant question.
4. Not really even a question here, just interested in #9 from the NAVADMIN: "Officers may voluntarily return to operational aviation service uponcompletion of at least one qualifying 36-month PFI assignment" and what that sort of career would look like.

 

[Brett327]

Does this suck up FTS/reserve spots

They're also plussing up FTS billets to effect the same end - increased production.

what that sort of career would look like.

Non-due course, presumably at terminal rank. I would imagine the detailers would offer you the same kinds of orders other non-screened O4s get.

 

[SlickAg]

When Airboss briefed it to us, he said they would be at terminal rank. That's the assumption I'm going on for now. If that ends up not being the case, either by instruction or in practice, then I would factor that into my decision making.

Airboss also said he's going to get over 200 applications. I bet all 200 of those had an honest discussion with their front offices about how they were willing to take the #2 or even an MP just to have the chance to apply for this program that hadn't even been officially approved yet.

Wait a minute. I thought some folks just wanted to stay in the cockpit in perpetuity and not do staff tours? This has been talked about many many times on AW. Seems like a good niche program that would appeal to those folks, while boosting production in training pipelines, no?

Most JOs I know who expressed an interest were under the impression they could apply immediately in lieu of their disassociated sea tour. Now that this would involve staying in PAST their DH tour (and impending disassociated sea tour)...not so much. I'm interested to see how this initial board goes. I don't know why they need a PFI program in the first place. If they need post DH dudes in the VTs, write them orders. They're called orders, and not requests, for a reason. All #2 EPs and below get sent to the VTs. They're not going to make O-5 anyway. And then the Navy has a pool of pot-committed guys who are at 16 years upon completion of their super DH tour and are willing to eat another sea tour to get their retirement. They'll even stay longer to get current again so they can go to the airlines. Regardless, I think this is ultimately a swing and a miss. And a day late and a dollar short. If the Navy needed more dudes in CNATRA (especially the VTJs) they shouldn't have 2xFOS'd so many people.

As to the increase in FTS billets, I could see a slight uptick as guys weigh the benefits of an extra two-three year commitment vice one year not flying and a possible stint at the regionals to get current. But most "critical" VT IPs are getting letters of extension to line up their PRD to their MSR already due to the IP shortage. I bet most FTS applicants these days are helo guys trying to get fixed wing time via the VRs or VTs. And a small percentage of dudes looking to stay to 20 and beyond.

If this whole thing weren't so tragic it'd be comical. I know that every #1 DH was the "Best MO/OpsO Ever" and "Future CO Material" and every CO ultimately was "My #1 of 9 highly competitive COs blah blah blah" on their 1 of 1 detaching FITREP but the Navy is awful at this stuff and staying ahead of things like this. It's one thing to be tactically competent and good at walking around the shops and being a good officer and leader but putting career aviators in charge of really important administrative tasks is taking things a little too far. I can't help but think that maybe if there were true professionals at PERS who spent whole careers doing manpower planning and staffing that maybe we wouldn't be in such a pickle. It's one thing to be a well-rounded Naval Officer but I think the institution has gone a little overboard (pun intended) in thinking that 1310s and 20s should be in charge of important things besides flying. And yes, eventually some of them will be admirals and do other things. Maybe wait until AFTER they screen for their star to teach them how to brief congress and get coffee for the flags with more stars than them. After all, if they truly are the best and the brightest, they'll learn everything they need to know super quickly anyway.

 

[Brett327]

Yeah, the last thing we want at PERS is a community guy you have a relationship that you can work effectively with front offices to get the right people to the right squadron at the right time. Fuck that shit.

 

[SlickAg]

Yeah, the last thing we want at PERS is a community guy you have a relationship that you can work effectively with front offices to get the right people to the right squadron at the right time. Fuck that shit.

If everyone has been fairly evaluated, no, I don't think it matters who goes into what squadron at what time. Other than front seat, back seat, or seat in the back, you're totally and completely objectively qualified. If not, why would you have screened in the first place?

"Must screen for EXPED-only command" "Should be a skipper, but only detail to squadron that has at least 18 months before deployment bc he's a weak player in the jet but a whiz with paperwork" "Send only to a command a squadron that had a good AMCI bc his speciality was OPS and the goat locker doesn't really respect him"

Give me a break. The Airboss just effectively testified in public that we're not doing so hot in tailhook aviation right now and we've done nothing but promote the people that put us here in the first place. Genius idea.

Sidenote: I hope your AO didn't rank too high on the CoC fitreps. His ITs haven't updated the command bios yet. Maybe he'll have a shot at PFI.

 

[scoolbubba]

Yeah, the last thing we want at PERS is a community guy you have a relationship that you can work effectively with front offices to get the right people to the right squadron at the right time. Fuck that shit.

Hahahhahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha.

Whew. Good one.

 

[Brett327]

If everyone has been fairly evaluated, no, I don't think it matters who goes into what squadron at what time. Other than front seat, back seat, or seat in the back, you're totally and completely objectively qualified. If not, why would you have screened in the first place?

"Must screen for EXPED-only command" "Should be a skipper, but only detail to squadron that has at least 18 months before deployment bc he's a weak player in the jet but a whiz with paperwork" "Send only to a command a squadron that had a good AMCI bc his speciality was OPS and the goat locker doesn't really respect him"

Give me a break. The Airboss just effectively testified in public that we're not doing so hot in tailhook aviation right now and we've done nothing but promote the people that put us here in the first place. Genius idea.

Sidenote: I hope your AO didn't rank too high on the CoC fitreps. His ITs haven't updated the command bios yet. Maybe he'll have a shot at PFI.

Dude, you're all over the map. I'm not going to try to convince you. If you can't evaluate PFI for what it is (and isn't), I'm not going to waste my time.

 

[SlickAg]

Dude, you're all over the map. I'm not going to try to convince you. If you can't evaluate PFI for what it is (and isn't), I'm not going to waste my time.

I think PFI is a dumb idea. Maybe I haven’t come out and said it, but I think the gist of my argument has been the same. They don’t need PFI for the target audience; post DHs are already pot committed. You send a guy to Meridian for a super DH and he’s already staying in. He knows he won’t make O-5, but he’s riding it out to 20. FTS used to be able to do this. Then big Navy FTS said I need more 1310s to command NOSCs and man staffs and what not. The people they needed for PFI are O-3s who love what they’re doing and want to stay in place. And now they’re losing that group. But whatever, I’m sure they’ve really thought this one through and it’ll be around for a hundred years. This sarcasm ties in with my next point.

I don’t think you were talking about PFI in your post earlier in your comment about how vital the detailers and placement officers are. My point was that I think the navy is stupid to entrust very important things like manpower planning and staffing to non-experts doing a two year rotation. And no, I don’t think a fitrep bullet of **command potential evident** makes one qualified for that job. A former PERS 43 stood up in public for years and said everything was fine, nothing to see here, no manning problem at all, the DH bonus take rate is right where it needs to be. And then two years later a different PERS 43 is crowd sourcing answers about why JOs are so unhappy and why everyone is getting out.

My poke at your AO is pointing out that I’m pretty sure your (former) MO had jets with the old XO’s and PXO’s names reflective of their new jobs on them right after the CoC. I’ve actually seen “update command bios on website” on the CoC POAM before so I’m surprised it hasn’t been done.

I much prefer being an airline pilot to being on active duty. And I think the dumpster fire is only just beginning, and will be going for quite some time.

I feel like I’ve been pretty consistent with the above. I don’t understand why you think otherwise.

 

[SlickAg]

@Brett327 I also missed your response about whether or not the ADHSB, ACSB, and AMCSB needed some shoring up. Because a computer can line up PRDs to come up with a solution that minimizes gapping fleet billets. Unless you’re implying that all DHs aren’t created equal and don’t show up on equal footing?

 

[Brett327]

I think PFI is a dumb idea.

So, you're saying you don't like it?

 

[Brett327]

@Brett327 I also missed your response about whether or not the ADHSB, ACSB, and AMCSB needed some shoring up. Because a computer can line up PRDs to come up with a solution that minimizes gapping fleet billets. Unless you’re implying that all DHs aren’t created equal and don’t show up on equal footing?

I have no idea what you're talking about now.

 

[SlickAg]

So, you're saying you don't like it?

Did I ever say I did? Please show me.

Yeah, the last thing we want at PERS is a community guy you have a relationship that you can work effectively with front offices to get the right people to the right squadron at the right time. Fuck that shit.

You seemed to imply that there was more to the detailing process than lining up PRDs. A computer can do that just as effectively. If anything other than timing goes into it, I think that’s cronyism.

 

[Brett327]

Got it. I'll pass along your recommendation to PERS the next time we chat.

 

[SlickAg]

Got it. I'll pass along your recommendation to PERS the next time we chat.

Don’t sell yourself short. I’m sure you’ll have a chance. #1 of _ highly competitive COs are going places.

But seriously, the current system has been working out for your community very well. Plenty of 1310 DHs to go around.

I forgot how great we’re (you’re?) doing. Please forgive me.