Aviation instructor career path

[Brett327]

Dismiss us at everyone's expense, unfortunately.

I'm not dismissing you, but I've stated my case and said my piece. Not really interested in rehashing for the 20th time. Don't like PFI? Don't apply for it. Don't like how PERS works? Take orders there, be persuasive, and influence those who write policy. Me telling folks here how it is, or people complaining here about how it is, or isn't, or ought to be isn't particularly useful. For some of you, nothing that PERS is able to realistically deliver in the way of policy will ever be good enough.

I've offered you my perspective from my position. All of you are free to take that perspective onboard, or discard it. Such is life.

 

[squorch2]

Take orders there

C’mon man. You know that’s not how it works.

 

[Brett327]

C’mon man. You know that’s not how it works.

In TACAIR, those placement and detailer gigs are community jobs. If your community values you, you can compete for those spots. YMMV.

 

[RedFive]

I realize there are exceptions, but to assume that every, or even most of the DHs who would apply for the PFI program are dipshits seems awfully harsh.

No, that's fair. I don't actually think that, simply exaggerating to make a point.

The message seems to be that senior JOs aren't valued unless they stay on for a DH tour. That's tone-deaf mismanagement of talent, or shortsightedness at the very least.

Yes, agreed. I think all of JOPA feels that way.

I've offered you my perspective from my position. All of you are free to take that perspective onboard, or discard it. Such is life.

Well, sir, I see that and I appreciate it. But I alone as a mere LT, cannot effect said change. And by the time I could, it would be too late. I know we all sound like a bunch of whiney bitching babies, and maybe there's some truth to that, but there's a JOPA walkout coming and it's not just for the afternoon. It would be great to see a program or two designed to keep some of us around, I think we can all agree that this program is not that. I would rather serve than fly a bus, but...it is what it is.

I flew back from Germany yesterday on a C-17 and I randomly ran into a an F-18 JOPA member in my YG. Without having ever met the guy or having anything otherwise in common, we immediately bonded over this issue facing us. And guess what, he's punching out to the airlines too. Not because he necessarily wants to, but because it's the least worst option.

*shrug*

 

[Python]

No, that's fair. I don't actually think that, simply exaggerating to make a point.


Yes, agreed. I think all of JOPA feels that way.


Well, sir, I see that and I appreciate it. But I alone as a mere LT, cannot effect said change. And by the time I could, it would be too late. I know we all sound like a bunch of whiney bitching babies, and maybe there's some truth to that, but there's a JOPA walkout coming and it's not just for the afternoon. It would be great to see a program or two designed to keep some of us around, I think we can all agree that this program is not that. I would rather serve than fly a bus, but...it is what it is.

I flew back from Germany yesterday on a C-17 and I randomly ran into a an F-18 JOPA member in my YG. Without having ever met the guy or having anything otherwise in common, we immediately bonded over this issue facing us. And guess what, he's punching out to the airlines too. Not because he necessarily wants to, but because it's the least worst option.

*shrug*

I think you’re nailing it.

@Brett327 in all seriousness, I would like to hear your personal opinion about the PFI program. Do you personally believe this is a good idea in execution, particularly, in the context of the rentention issue of JOS leaving at MSR? Not looking for one of your “explanation of policy” answers. Just your thoughts.

 

[Brett327]

I think you’re nailing it.

@Brett327 in all seriousness, I would like to hear your personal opinion about the PFI program. Do you personally believe this is a good idea in execution, particularly, in the context of the rentention issue of JOS leaving at MSR? Not looking for one of your “explanation of policy” answers. Just your thoughts.

As I’ve already stated, it’s not intended as a retention program. I think that’s why some people are getting hung up over this.

It’s a program to direct a very small number of non due course post DH aviators to increase pipeline production capacity, which is a real problem right now. If it accomplishes that goal, then it’s a success. If it prevents some folks from having to do hard fill staff jobs or sea duty, while staying in the cockpit between DH and reaching 20 years, then that’s a success for those individuals who prefer to fly a few more years.

So, if it accomplishes those things, then I personally am in favor of it. I expect the selection board will have more applicants than there are quotas. I do not expect that it will have an impact on retention.

 

[Brett327]

Well, sir, I see that and I appreciate it. But I alone as a mere LT, cannot effect said change.

Don't sell yourself short. Two officers from my community (Weapons School LT and a DH of mine) have written several articles at USNI on their retention ideas/solutions. The result was an opportunity to work with CNAF actual for a few days to promote and discuss their ideas. That is a JO and DH having an influence on decision makers and ultimately on policy. There are people in leadership that will listen, but you've got to do your homework to get their attention.

Think, write, publish, influence.

 

[Hair Warrior]

In fairness to the JOPA, the probability-weighted costs of those self-initiated JO op-ed writings heavily outweigh the probability-weighted benefits. It’s like betting on green in roulette. You could win big on a small investment, but far more likely it either won’t amount to anything (in which case you still lose time spent on it), or it may even backfire with your peers/ chain of command.

That doesn’t mean JOs can’t still work within their chain of command/ span of control to generate positive change.

 

[Brett327]

In fairness to the JOPA, the probability-weighted costs of those self-initiated JO op-ed writings heavily outweigh the probability-weighted benefits. It’s like betting on green in roulette. You could win big on a small investment, but far more likely it either won’t amount to anything (in which case you still lose time spent on it), or it may even backfire with your peers/ chain of command.

That's an awfully defeatist mindset. It's not like these two guys spent months of their lives dedicated to writing their piece. It's not that difficult.

One thing is certain, you will have zero influence on leadership if you don't engage them. Complaining on AW is, admittedly, much less taxing.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Fair enough.

But pretend this AW forum is a flight simulator. I’m free to share ideas and discuss concepts. But I often get like >50% of my ideas get shot down by senior officers — for good reasons that I may not have been aware of. Landmine discovery by stepping on them. It’s awesome for learning. It keeps me coming back here. I take it all onboard as new data points, and I suck less each day. I have a thick skin and know it’s in my interest to get any ideas shot down here vice out in the fleet. But let’s face it, I’d be in big doo-doo if I put my real name on my AW posts and published them in Proceedings as if I knew better than Big Navy how to run things.

If you’re getting shot down 50% of the time in the sim (AW.com), and the real life mission (op-ed) would be an extracurricular one, it’s a no-brainer: don’t fly the mission.

 

[scoolbubba]

And guess what, he's punching out to the airlines too. Not because he necessarily wants to, but because it's the least worst option.

*shrug*

Start laying the groundwork now if you want to fly gray or orange and whites on the backside of your active career. When you’re current and qualified, it’s a much easier sell to the SAUs than if they need to send you through a work up syllabus especially if you aren’t local.

If you want ready room friends, put the legwork in now to find a comfy place to land in whatever T/M/S that has a SAU where you can keep doing uncle sugar’s good work.

Don’t worry about walking. Your skills are valued on the outside and your time and expertise is not taken for granted like it is now. People will pay you more to make them more money, but if you wanna hang out at home and make min guarantee, no ones going to look at you like you kicked their puppy and you hate America.

Let the really smart people who’ve fucked up retention for the last decade figure out their problems.

 

[Brett327]

Fair enough.

But pretend this AW forum is a flight simulator. I’m free to share ideas and discuss concepts. But I often get like >50% of my ideas get shot down by senior officers — for good reasons that I may not have been aware of. Landmine discovery by stepping on them. It’s awesome for learning. It keeps me coming back here. I take it all onboard as new data points, and I suck less each day. I have a thick skin and know it’s in my interest to get any ideas shot down here vice out in the fleet. But let’s face it, I’d be in big doo-doo if I put my real name on my AW posts and published them in Proceedings as if I knew better than Big Navy how to run things.

If you’re getting shot down 50% of the time in the sim (AW.com), and the real life mission (op-ed) would be an extracurricular one, it’s a no-brainer: don’t fly the mission.

As your experience grows - I.E., by the time you're a senior LT or LCDR, you'll know enough to actually know what you're talking about, and if you're persuasive, people may listen and be influenced. It should not be a surprise to anyone that recommendations on institutional change from entry level experience isn't going to carry much weight.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Fair enough.

But pretend this AW forum is a flight simulator. I’m free to share ideas and discuss concepts. But I often get like >50% of my ideas get shot down by senior officers — for good reasons that I may not have been aware of. Landmine discovery by stepping on them. It’s awesome for learning. It keeps me coming back here. I take it all onboard as new data points, and I suck less each day. I have a thick skin and know it’s in my interest to get any ideas shot down here vice out in the fleet. But let’s face it, I’d be in big doo-doo if I put my real name on my AW posts and published them in Proceedings as if I knew better than Big Navy how to run things.

If you’re getting shot down 50% of the time in the sim (AW.com), and the real life mission (op-ed) would be an extracurricular one, it’s a no-brainer: don’t fly the mission.

@Brett327 tells me to shut up maybe 2-3 times a month, usually in the form of a PM or being called out here.

 

[scoolbubba]

Once you have the requisite number of coffee deliveries in the e-ring, your military experience will be valid.

 

[Brett327]

@Brett327 tells me to shut up maybe 2-3 times a month, usually in the form of a PM or being called out here.

Which is usually preceded by you posting a link to a porn site.

Anyhow, since I'm here, STFU, Rufio.