Brownshoes banned from A-pool inspections!

[ghost]

I would have given you crap for wearing brown boots as a SMA. You didn't get to wear brown boots until you made HAC at my last command. Did you just go to the PAO and ask because you wanted to wear them or was there an actual reason you need to wear the brown boots.

I know there is a sense of privilege associated with the brown boots, but I think it it a bunch of BS. I wore out 4 or 5 pairs of the black Frakenboots before switching to the brown boots and wish I had been wearing the brown boots all along. (My command wouldn't buy the brown ones for anyone since they were "too expensive." I only switched when I was forced to buy after wearing a pair out and not getting an order to the paraloft in time.) The brown ones are much more comfortable and wear better. The brown shoes LOOK better, but the brown boots ARE better.

Uniform regs say ANY officer or chief can brown shoes with the khakis. I see non-aviation people in brown shoes all the time at it doesn't bother me. Any officer or chief can also wear the brown boots with a flight suit or wash khakis. I know some guys are waiting to get to a command that will buy the brown boots for them, but don't knock the guy who wants to be comfortable.

Wings are earned. Boots and shoes are not.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I've seen a couple fellow students sporting black bellevilles, as well as one who had those EMT style ones

 

[Bevo16]

Once upon a time when I was a student at the RAG, I was at the hangar putting the finishing touches on my brief and the subject of brown flight boots came up. I thought that it did not matter when you got them, the guy (another ensign) thought that you HAD to wait until you were a HAC. He decided to run up to a random commander (who was later my XO/CO) out in the hallway and ask his opinion on the matter. The response was something on the line of:

"Are you fucking serious? I want my pilots to know their break-lock and missile in flight procedures. I don't give a damn what color their boots are."

That squadron won the Golden Wrench for all of it's cruise, the Battle E, and pretty much every maintenance and operational award that could be given. The entire wardroom was often seen wearing green flight suits with desert boots and desert patches.

I guess the moral of the story is when you get to a squadron that has something to worry about other than bullshit like boot color, then those things won't even matter anymore.

It has also been my experience that leaders who have a wardroom with a really nice looking wardroom often have shitty maintenance programs, they miss launch times, and have f'd up sailors. I have never read a mishap report that commented on the color of an aviators boots.

 

[MasterBates]

Even funnier, I was called out by an IP last week for wearing brown shoes . . . I told them that my designator is in aviation, so I'm wearing them. He said 'no it's not, you're not winged yet.' What's the expression, facepalm? yeah, that was it. I simply said well, to each their own. Yeah, he didn't like my 'just say no' to black shoes patch either.

PM me the name of said asshat.

 

[BACONATOR]

PM me the name of said asshat.

You think aforementioned asshattery is HSL that you would know him?

 

[MasterBates]

It sounds very HSLish. But I know asshats outside HSL-Land.

 

[Bster]

However, COMMA - remember that brown shoes were created by SNAs. They can dictate a certain set of footwear for an inspection (black), and that's a lawful order. You're playing with fire to challenge that. However, you want to keep those new black kicks in inspection ready condition? Wear brown every other time...

Proper newbie-JOPA response is to continually wear brown when they haven't prescribed black. If they say you must wear it in formation? Wear them in formation, then change in your car and walk into StuCon with your brown shoes on (more effective if you walk in within 5 minutes of formation/inspection). THAT'S the way to stick it to the man. As long as you're keeping your nose clean, they'll respect it...

Great advice!!! Strongly suggest you do what is asked of you to make it through training. For goodness sake, you are going to get paid to fly!!! How can you top that. Many out there would gladly put up with a lot of crap in order to fly. Is it illegal, immoral, or just flat our wrong ... then follow it. The leadership could have the bigger picture that you don't see in order to accomplish the mission for the whole. Remember - they were just like you once and people generally are not assh*les for no reason. They just have a different perspective than you.

From my perspective, the pendulum has swung to far in one direction (you are in the paper way too much lately) and now you have to deal with it swinging in the other direction via increase attention from above, extra (normal) PT, and pink sheets. That's just life. Better you learn how to deal with things you don't like now vice later on when it matters most.

 

[NavAir42]

I think daily inspections and ENS's going on rampages in distant wildlife preserves qualifies as "full retard", don't ya think?

You never go full retard.

Except, it sounds like it's happened on more than one occasion in the cradle of naval aviation. Bide your time, keep your head down, and better days will come to you. Unfortunately for those unlucky many in A-pool right now it used to be that was a really, really, really good deal. Now it sounds like only a good deal. Maybe only a deal.

 

[xj220]

Once upon a time when I was a student at the RAG, I was at the hangar putting the finishing touches on my brief and the subject of brown flight boots came up. I thought that it did not matter when you got them, the guy (another ensign) thought that you HAD to wait until you were a HAC. He decided to run up to a random commander (who was later my XO/CO) out in the hallway and ask his opinion on the matter. The response was something on the line of:

"Are you fucking serious? I want my pilots to know their break-lock and missile in flight procedures. I don't give a damn what color their boots are."

That squadron won the Golden Wrench for all of it's cruise, the Battle E, and pretty much every maintenance and operational award that could be given. The entire wardroom was often seen wearing green flight suits with desert boots and desert patches.

I guess the moral of the story is when you get to a squadron that has something to worry about other than bullshit like boot color, then those things won't even matter anymore.

It has also been my experience that leaders who have a wardroom with a really nice looking wardroom often have shitty maintenance programs, they miss launch times, and have f'd up sailors. I have never read a mishap report that commented on the color of an aviators boots.

Good post. Yes, it's nice to have these aviation specific things and tradition, but a lot of you people are making it out to be the end of the world. So you have to wear black shoes for a bit, suck it up. There's much more important things out there and better things to waste your time on.

 

[bolterking]

If you're a 13XX, you've earned brown shoes.

But you aren't a 13xx until day you get winged and sign paperwork from Commodore and routed to your Officer Record...

The authorized shoes are BLACK or BROWN oxfords, but TRADITIONALLY (and I think that is the key word in this thread...tradition since our fine Navy is built on tradition), brown shoes are only worn by aviation connected officers and CPO's.

I can see why there is some flak about SNA's wearing brown BOOTS. It was traditionally reserved until your fleet squadron to get your brown boots.

I saw this mentality as an IP 5 years ago, some (ONLY SOME and not all) SNA's believe they are "owed" their wings vice earning them. I personally, would not have been caught dead wearing anything brown (jacket, boots) until I got winged...but that is me. Last thing I was worried about going throught the program (API, Primary, Intermediate, RAG) was to worry about my color of jacket or shoes. I was too busy studying, and trying not to get that career ending second down/SOD which back then was a career ender. And who am I to try to conform and fit into a ready room of seasoned fleet pilot and IP's and stand out as the newbie who doesn't even have a set of GOLD WINGS.

 

[bolterking]

VERY GOOD POST AND VIEW.

So very true.

 

[Donnybrooker]

But you aren't a 13xx until day you get winged and sign paperwork from Commodore and routed to your Officer Record...

Actually, SNA is 1390 and SNFO is 1370.

 

[Tom]

I am 13xx (1390).

 

[wink]

Actually, SNA is 1390 and SNFO is 1370.

Good catch. I was posting this when I saw yours come up.

While there are better more important things for our young ones to concern themselves with now, things like brown shoes, tradition, and group identity are vitally important to naval aviation. The time and place will come when these guys can have an impact on stupidity like this. If these guys do not value brown shoes, then other naval aviation traditions will fall by the wayside as well. When that happens, you will no longer be in the organization you hoped to be in. Naval Aviation would become the Air Force, but without the golf courses, 9-4, M-F schedules, and beer in the ready room. If these guys are to keep their mouths shut for now, I hope they don't forget it and vow to maintain naval aviation's traditions every other time they can.

 

[HeloBubba]

You think aforementioned asshattery is HSL that you would know him?

It sounds very HSLish. But I know asshats outside HSL-Land.

It pains me deeply to discover that my former community is now associated with everything that is bad in Naval Aviation.