CJCS responds to Rep. Gaetz

[Swanee]

In correct. When it does happen ( in many states procedures for drawing boundaries prevent it ), the goal is to make up majority DEM or GOP districts. That is it. Just like when disparate outcomes are assumed racist, you are ignoring other obvious motives. If you don't think the GOP would draw up a majority black district of Republican voters you are crazy. If DEMs gerrymander districts that are largely minority, it is because they are reliable DEM voters. They are not being inclusive of minorities at the risk of losing elections for moral reasons. Politicians want to be elected and stay in power. That is the only thing that motivates contemporary gerrymandering.

Yet non white voters don't vote republican... so is it the chicken or the egg?

And why exclude those voters rather than adopt policies to gain their support?


F it, let's go here- Why does the KKK and other white supremacy groups adopt the republican party and not the democrat?

 

[Mirage]

Swanee, your post is almost comically hypocritical, yet you finish it by laughably calling the majority of military officers, whom you've never met, hypocrites. Truly a dumpster fire of a post. Let me elaborate.

Yet it's still happening, by the right, to purposefully diminish the value of a non-white vote so they can stay in power.

But hey, the right supports civil* rights.


(*civil meaning the right to oppress other people so they stay in power.)


And don't start with the "But the Dems do it too" bullshit. If it's wrong, then it's wrong. Have the balls to admit it.

So when Republicans gerrymander it's because they're racist, but when dems do it, it's ok? It's hilarious you don't see the irony in you saying the above bolded text. If gerrymandering is wrong, like we both apparently agree it is, then how about you have the balls to not excuse the left. They both do it for the same reasons, but I know some folks love to throw out the racist card any time anyone disagrees with them. If you have some proof that the right does it because they're racist, and not just to preserve political power like the left, then show it.

I get really embarrassed by most military officers. We exist in a socialist society for our entire careers, we get a ton of social benefits, yet most say that any type of socialist policy is wrong. We vote to purposefully not give the rest of society the benefits that keep us going. As if somehow we're better than the rest of society... We're not. We're just people doing a damn job, and we don't want to share our good deal with anyone.

First off, none of us voted for the "socialist benefits" we receive. Second, most of the benefits you mention are in no way socialist. Our pay, retirement benefits, BAS, recreation program, gyms, MWR, chowhalls, etc... These are all benefits most large employers offer. Many are also necessary for us to accomplish our mission. The only debatable ones I see are GI bill and healthcare. Healthcare is necessary for a healthy fighting force, otherwise you'd have folks not taking care of themselves to save money. Not to mention our unique situations deploying on ships, fobs, etc. GI bill is a part of our compensation and was created to fight vet homelessness. You can call it socialist if you want, but again, we didn't vote for it.

Most military officers are hypocrites when it comes to their view on how society should work.

I don't know most military officers like you apparently do. But I have identified at least one who is a hypocrite, no doubt.

 

[Brett327]

I think "the military is a socialist system so you're a hypocrite" is a silly argument. For many of these benefits often cited, the government is acting more like an employer than when it gives Joe citizen a welfare check.

 

[Hotdogs]

Pay, rank, promotions, medical benefits, dental benefits, housing and BAH, the commissary, the exchange, BAS, the hiring process, the firing process, the retirement benefits, the retirement pension, the disability benefits, Exceptional Family Member Program, Montgomery GI benefits, Post 9/11 GI benefits, MWR and recreation programs, Gyms, Chowhalls, ITT...

All of this is guaranteed by the Government through tax dollars. Our entire careers and lives in the military are dependent upon a socialist structure.
Need I go on?

Okay.

Those are all earned benefits and part of a defined compensation package. Contingent on my continued service in the military. They weren’t handed out for free nor parceled out to individuals based on need/equity. Many of them are only earned unless you complete certain amount of time in service (pension, VA and education benefits). There more nuances in many of those programs you mention that are not worth going into detail. As mentioned, many of those benefits are also given by major corporations and conglomerates in the U.S. and abroad.

The crux of your argument is that you think I was given these benefits for free. In reality, I entered into a contractual agreement with the government for X amount of time to serve at the pleasure of the executive branch. They have the ability to employ me for whatever they deem fit, relocate my family, send me into harms way, regulate my way of life, and ultimately terminate my contract at will when required.

You need to readjust your idea of what service means.

Yet non white voters don't vote republican... so is it the chicken or the egg?

That is about the most ignorant thing you’ve type today.

 

[Swanee]

I expected nothing less from this group. Yet another, "wow, I don't fit in with these guys" moment.


AWs has become IWAGR.


I'm out.

 

[Brett327]

AWs has become IWAGR.

No it hasn't. Snap out of it, dude.

 

[picklesuit]

I expected nothing less from this group. Yet another, "wow, I don't fit in with these guys" moment.


AWs has become IWAGR.


I'm out.

 

[Mirage]

I expected nothing less from this group. Yet another, "wow, I don't fit in with these guys" moment.


AWs has become IWAGR.


I'm out.

You came on here and basically called all Republicans racists and most officers hypocrites. That shit doesn't fit in many places outside an Ibram Kendi book reading.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I expected nothing less from this group. Yet another, "wow, I don't fit in with these guys" moment.


AWs has become IWAGR.


I'm out.

Since you were never invited to join IWAGR and never allowed on the site, you have no clue what goes on at IWAGR.

For your info, we have both sides of the spectrum but we find fun in making non-politically correct humor comments to those opposing our personal ideologies, and each other for many other reasons too. It's probably the happiest lovefest site on the internet.

 

[nodropinufaka]

I don’t see the problem with the book. Kind of boggles my mind so many people are against it.

Story time:

I was a brand new ENS fresh out of OCS and attending my first school as an officer.

The LT in front of me tells me that and I quote:

“you’re a walking case of affirmative action and only here cause you’re a minority”

and he said it as if it was a normal thing to say and as if there was nothing wrong with it. Like how you would tell your coworker you were going to grab drinks after work. He literally saw nothing wrong with it.

being an ENS I wasn’t sure what to do so I let it slide. Always regretted it.

when I got out of the military and interviewed for my first civilian job they asked me if I had any professional regrets and I said it was letting that slide.

saying stuff like that may seem very minor. But it can hurt and demean people and make them feel like they don’t belong (not me- all I thought was fuck that guy). And it’s racist.

Worst is when I talked to my friend about it later who was also an ENS like me and from a wealthy upbringing and an academy grad he said “so what’s the problem? It’s prob likely true and I don’t know why you should be mad?” And he didn’t get that it could be hurtful.

so yea. Education can help people understand different backgrounds.

My grandma came from a Pacific Island Nation and had barely a 7th grade education level. My parents didn’t have money but they sacrificed and worked multiple jobs for me and my brother to get good educations. Had they not made that sacrifice? My brother and I prob be barely high school graduates instead of officers.

Anyway. I’m rambling. Point is. Doesn’t hurt to see others perspectives.

 

[nodropinufaka]

Also kind of on topic. I think the Navy could greatly benefit from expanding studies to liberal arts and not putting such a huge emphasis on STEM.

Stuff like sociology, criminology, and political science is useful and graduate degrees in this subject help people understand society and the different mechanisms at play in relation to crime, upward mobility, socio-economics, etc.

edit: saying this cause I have a masters in sociology and spend my time working with Dep of State/USAID analyzing helping third world countries.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

Until we can find the actual cause of things like this, we're not going to be able to find a solution that works. I also think that the solution is going to have to come from within people of those race / ethnicities because I think that the most significant problems at play are unique to each group and I don't think that someone outside of the group can really fully understand them.

Do we really not know the cause? The cause of this disparity seems pretty obvious to me. Groups of people have been systematically oppressed and the government went out of their way to take away educational opportunities. Is it any surprise they aren't scoring high?

 

[Brett327]

Do we really not know the cause? The cause of this disparity seems pretty obvious to me. Groups of people have been systematically oppressed and the government went out of their way to take away educational opportunities. Is it any surprise they aren't scoring high?

As I gather more experience in life, it amazes me that so many people are seemingly oblivious to this. Legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, atrocious treatment of Chinese and Japanese workers in the 19th and 20th centuries, Japanese internment during WWII, the incoherent economic demand for illicit low wage labor in our agricultural and service industries while obsessing about illegal immigration and building a border wall.

To put it mildly, the plight of non-whites in this country has been absolutely fucked.

 

[HAL Pilot]

The LT in front of me tells me that and I quote:

“you’re a walking case of affirmative action and only here cause you’re a minority”

and he said it as if it was a normal thing to say and as if there was nothing wrong with it. Like how you would tell your coworker you were going to grab drinks after work. He literally saw nothing wrong with it.

I live on an island where I am continuously referred to as a Haole and I am treated different than a "local". But it's okay because a non-white is calling me that and treating me different... And I just accept that it is what it is and ignore it.

I went to a high school that was 90% black and treated like shit, beat up regularly and other similar stuff. I had to go to the library for some of my classes because they were on floors where whites dare not go. But it was okay because it was blacks hating the white.... And I just figured out how to minimize the pain and ignore the assholes as much as possible.

I've lived racism against me and with being discriminated against as a white guy for 4 years of high school and the last 20 years in Hawaii. Both sides are equally capable and practice racism but one side refuses to accept that because white supremacy is everywhere and the root of all bad in there eyes.

Life is full of unfairness. People are people and a LT having that attitude with you does not make the Navy as an institution racist. If you had reported it, it would have been dealt with quickly and firmly. One asshole does not make the institution an asshole.

Our country has laws, court rulings, policies, etc. against discrimination. Maybe not so much in the past but we do in the present. As an institution, our government does not discriminate and it forbids businesses, organizations, schools, etc. from discriminating. That doesn't mean there isn't still racism and discrimination, but it is coming from individual people not society as a whole. Again, there will always be assholes.

People have choices. If you don't like your "poor" community that is lacking resources such as good schools - move. Good paying jobs lacking in your area - move. The opportunities are there for people of any color who have the perseverance and will to pursue them. It may be hard but so is life and anything worth having is worth working for. I saw this personally in my high school back in the 1980s. Those that wanted to succeed and better themselves pulled themselves out of the inner city economically depressed crime ridden ghetto and succeeded. I keep in touch with a few (yes, I did have some black friend despite the situation - the ones in my classes actually trying to get an education).

One of my closest friends is a pharmaceutical company executive in charge of sales in Florida, Alabama, Georgia and South Carolina. He came from the intercity Gainsville, FL black ghetto. He was 1 of 9 children. His brothers and sisters never made it out as all they did was complain and not try. The also call him an Uncle Tom who "thinks he's better than black people". He sees the same thing happening with his nieces and nephews. There are a few working their asses off, doing what it takes to include moving, and succeeding.

We can't legislate the problem of racism away. We have to change the attitudes and thoughts of individual people of all colors. The woke left's solutions will just make the problem worse in that their solutions center around a victim & revenge scenario of taking from whites and giving to all others. Legally, both sides are equal and have the same opportunities, responsibilities, rules and regulations. What is lacking is an effective way to change attitudes. Taking from one side and giving to the other will not change the attitudes of those being taken from.

Non-whites also have to give up their victim attitude and understand that everything bad is not because of whites, everything a white guy does is not racist, education matters, effective parenting matters, and opportunity is there for those that seek it.

Oh yeah - and stop listening to the Al Sharptons, Lou Farrakahs and Jesse Jacksons of the world.

 

[Python]

I don’t see the problem with the book. Kind of boggles my mind so many people are against it.



Anyway. I’m rambling. Point is. Doesn’t hurt to see others perspectives.

Other perspectives are valuable. They should be shared. And I really appreciate you sharing yours. Seriously.

However, the book we’re talking about is not about sharing other perspectives. If that’s what it was, people wouldn’t take issue with it.