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CJCS responds to Rep. Gaetz
- Thread starter IKE
- Start date
Jesus dude just re-read it
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
If I deployed as an enlisted ground pounder to Iraq or Afghanistan would that give me more credibility?
@wink seems to imply that was the case as well. I think that is what you meant?
Yes, any interaction with the people in harms way would lend some credibility to knowing the motivations of those people for joining. It also seems more likely you’d know that naval aviators go to war.
I think your criticism of the recent wars is entirely unfounded, much like your “it’s all they have” argument. I have been poor (mostly because of poor choices in my youth) and I know lots of people who suffer from generational poverty and, NO, the military is not and never has been the only option. To say as much shows your ignorance of human nature, why people decide to do things, and even the demographics of the US. You may be excited to know that our military is not, and never has been, a reflection of any single segment of our society but rather all of it. Both the enlisted and officer ranks have similar levels of racial diversity as the general population. For example, it is a complete myth that black men serve more in the combat arms than other races.
As for our recent combat activities I’ll say this. All wars are shit, it is a pointless and unnecessary human activity, but I’m willing to bet we’ll keep hosting them. There has never been a “good war,” only long events and short events. The end metric of every conflict is entirely different and free of comparison to any other and I would even say the end metric of almost every US war has been different than what we thought at the beginning. In my time I have helped build at least 15 schools and have aided in the feeding of more children than any two civilian NGO’s combined. I have also assaulted villages, called in artillery and mortar strikes on buildings that civilians might be in, and would do it again if the mission called for it.
For someone that is an intelligence officer I find your global and local outlook embarrassingly binary. I have a kid still in college who is more complex and thoughtful on issues than you appear. I advise you think through things before you post. Consider genuine history, human nature, and human need. Consider the duty of any leader (especially national leaders), the real duty, and the wants, needs, and desires as a reflection of local circumstances radiating outward to state, regional, national and then global perspectives.
As for our recent combat activities I’ll say this. All wars are shit, it is a pointless and unnecessary human activity, but I’m willing to bet we’ll keep hosting them. There has never been a “good war,” only long events and short events. The end metric of every conflict is entirely different and free of comparison to any other and I would even say the end metric of almost every US war has been different than what we thought at the beginning. In my time I have helped build at least 15 schools and have aided in the feeding of more children than any two civilian NGO’s combined. I have also assaulted villages, called in artillery and mortar strikes on buildings that civilians might be in, and would do it again if the mission called for it.
For someone that is an intelligence officer I find your global and local outlook embarrassingly binary. I have a kid still in college who is more complex and thoughtful on issues than you appear. I advise you think through things before you post. Consider genuine history, human nature, and human need. Consider the duty of any leader (especially national leaders), the real duty, and the wants, needs, and desires as a reflection of local circumstances radiating outward to state, regional, national and then global perspectives.
About Vietnam. And they do because they have had over 40 years to reflect, collect information they hadn't known and observe any long term national security results of the war.
@SELRES_AMDO It is hardly fair to compare a 70 year old Vietnam vet 40 years after their experience with the understanding of a 20 something recently in a very different conflict.
We conquered Hawaii overnight without any U.S. casualties….
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
Well that’s great and all but how do you explain the statistics that recruiting is primarily focused in economically depressed areas and most recruits come from those areas?
And because of what I say or posts- you disagree with- then it’s a complex situation I don’t understand.
I seriously don’t care if you wanted to go build schools in Afghanistan or Call in mortar strikes.
That doesn’t change my opinion on the worthiness of the conflict. Nor does it make me view your service as any less.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
Well I’d have to disagree.
There’s plenty of scholars and smart individuals who contribute to national security who didn’t go to war.
and I only asked that cause most of my interactions with Naval aviators were on the carriers in WESTPAC and when I talked to them none of them actually deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan.
SELRES_AMDO
Well-Known Member
Do you have a source for this?
The last break down I saw definitely did not reflect what you're saying especially for Officer ranks.
I thought Afghanistan had a good rationale. I thought Iraq was stupid pretty soon after we went in, and it distracted us from Afghanistan. But I went to both, figured if I didn't go, someone else less qualified would have to. And it was the only show in town.
I just had a flashback to reaching back to home for some assistance from NAVAIR on a Sunday, and realizing that only downrange was it "Friday...only two more workdays until Monday."
We were at war, America was at the mall. But that was the only way we could run a 20 year war.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
I thought Afghanistan was initially a good idea. Then as it shifted to an occupying force it fell apart.
You said that before, and it was just as dumb the second time around.
So, I see you are a pathetic when it comes to defending your point because you missed mine by a mile. So, I’ll make part of very easy for you. My opinion is worth the same as yours…a pile of poo based on personal experiences (or in your case assumed prejudices).
Now the hard part. Prove what you say. Just prove it. Give me a single, real article or study that says recruiting is primarily focused in economically depressed areas. Answer, if you dare, my factual statement that the military is an almost mirror image of society in general and that recruits and officers come from all walks of life reflective of their economic standards. You did the exact same thing when this discussion was focused on the idiotic metric of skin tone…and when challenged with facts and history you pretty much backed away and told us what you “feel.” Your feelings, like mine, are simply pointless in a discussion that demands facts.
So, prove it. Just prove it. Just give me one study that says military recruiting focuses on the economically unfortunate. Find me one study that shows poor people end up doing the most dangerous jobs in the military. Find just those simple things - because I can link to studies that prove you not just off target, but entirely wrong.
And, if you can’t prove it…just go away until you educate yourself.
Then you closed your eyes. The only place that doesn’t mostly align with the broader population is at the flag officer level and even that is changing.
Demographics of the U.S. Military
Deployed around the world, the armed forces are a pillar of U.S. power and influence abroad. But many civilians are unfamiliar with their composition. How much does the military resemble U.S. society?
www.cfr.org