CMV-22B Osprey Rollout

[Pags]

I’ve said this previously, but the logistics of going to a CVN who’s ready and waiting for you in an air plan cycle vs waiting for green deck on an LPD and/or arguing with Greencrown on an LHA are different beasts. VRC guys are super capable, I’m sure, but it’s assurdely new ground.

I dont think you'll see VRC doing too much work outside of the CSG. The community has been pretty adamant that the det sizing is designed around maintaining the current VRC input to CSG and any other missions will detract from that.

Also let's not pretend that there's some sort of secret HSC sauce to working around other ships. I'm pretty sure a VRC guy turned CMV pilot could figure it out. Sure the first trip in to the ESG will be as assed up as a HSC(CVW) or HSM guy coming to the LHD for the first time but it turns out that most aviators are pretty sharp and going to the different boats just isn't that hard.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Could you guys see a CMV-22 routinely tanking off a an AF KC-135 enroute to a blue water CVN? Or the Airwing sending out an F-18 tanking asset to meet the CMV-22 halfway

 

[sickboy]

If only there was some sort of manual that explained how to operate around LHDs

 

[Pags]

Could you guys see a CMV-22 routinely tanking off a an AF KC-135 enroute to a blue water CVN? Or the Airwing sending out an F-18 tanking asset to meet the CMV-22 halfway

The CMV requirements were written such that the CMV wouldn't need to tank to accomplish its mission. The CMV will still have an AR system so it would be technically possible provided that there was a clearance for the CMV to tank off of that type of tanker. AR currency for the VRM community is another discussion altogether.

 

[Pags]

If only there was some sort of manual that explained how to operate around LHDs

No one ever reads it. Air Ops used to send a copy of the LHD NATOPS and cheat sheets to every visitor and most of them gooned it up. Our Air Boss was an HSL guy so there was always a standing bet as to whether the local HSL/HSM bubbas would be able to decipher the hidden secrets of the charlie pattern or the crow's foot. Lots of laughing over the battle net between tower and FDC at the Air Boss's expense when the HSL guys screwed it away. But they only screwed it away once per det as they'd quickly figure it out and subsequent visits would be less hilarious, much to the HSC alumni's chagrin.

 

[Jim123]

As long as a V-22 doesn't fit on the flight deck of a DDG then the CMV guys don't need to worry about what happens when your parking brake slips after you land on one of those. Everything else about dealing with air capable ships is about your fuel remaining and about the ships not being where/when they were supposed to be and with the correct pax and trash you were supposed to pick up.

 

[FLGUY]

Are the Navy cones going to the same VT/HT track as the Marine Plopter dudes?

Back last year, CNATRA sent out a letter to the Wing STUCONs saying that they would do the the current Marine VT/HT track. Granted, they also pushed back the Navy stud V-22 selection like two or three times since then, so it can always change.

 

[ChuckMK23]

The CMV requirements were written such that the CMV wouldn't need to tank to accomplish its mission. The CMV will still have an AR system so it would be technically possible provided that there was a clearance for the CMV to tank off of that type of tanker. AR currency for the VRM community is another discussion altogether.

Wait so AAR isn’t just one qualifying “thing” it’s deoendent on what you are tanking from? There is no blanket clearance at aircraft commanders discretion to use anything with a frogmen/basket?

 

[ChuckMK23]

Wait so AAR isn’t just one qualifying “thing” it’s deoendent on what you are tanking from? There is no blanket clearance at aircraft commanders discretion to use anything with a frogmen/basket?

Apologies - autocorrect fail.

“Frogman” should read “drogue” - thanks Apple!

 

[wlawr005]

Wait so AAR isn’t just one qualifying “thing” it’s deoendent on what you are tanking from? There is no blanket clearance at aircraft commanders discretion to use anything with a frogmen/basket?

In Hornet land we track DAY/NIGHT Organic (Super Hornet)/Non-organic (Not Super Hornet). Typically guys will want to get a Day/Night look at the KC-135 before heading into combat ops. Currency isn't really a thing since the only way to get current is to go tank.....soooo, go tank.

There's a day/night syllabus flight in the FRS and that's pretty much it.

 

[SynixMan]

As long as a V-22 doesn't fit on the flight deck of a DDG then the CMV guys don't need to worry about what happens when your parking brake slips after you land on one of those. Everything else about dealing with air capable ships is about your fuel remaining and about the ships not being where/when they were supposed to be and with the correct pax and trash you were supposed to pick up.

This is what I’m more talking about.

Do I think it’s super complicated? No. But there’s a reason a lot of HAC boards deal with log runs gone pear shaped. There’s a lot more variables than a regular CVN at lat/long with TACAN, ready to catch you per the air plan. It’s only a matter of time before they’re asked to move a part to a boat they’re capable of going that isn’t a CVN.

And of note @Flash I’m not mad, just standing aside trying to point out some hubris. A few cross overs would help expand the community worldview without changing too much. It’s way out of my timing anyway. ?

 

[Pags]

Wait so AAR isn’t just one qualifying “thing” it’s deoendent on what you are tanking from? There is no blanket clearance at aircraft commanders discretion to use anything with a frogmen/basket?

I was talking about the technical side of AR. A reciever needs to cleared to operate behind tankers just like how an aircraft needs an approved wind envelope to land on a new class of ship. Tanker certs are done by DT to collect data for the airworthiness folks to show that it is safe to operate in certain regimes behind certain tankers. The V-22 is currently cleared per NATOPS to tank behind specific tankers at specific airspeeds but is not cleared to use some tankers/configurations due to various reasons.

I don't know how each community tracks aircrew tanker training/currency/Prof but that's another piece altogether.

As I mentioned earlier, it's analogous to landing on a boat. You need to technical clearance in the shape of an approved wind envelope that was generated by the DT dynamic interface folks and then your aircrew will likely need some level of qualification and currency as determined by community practice.

 

[wlawr005]

I think quite a few of the problems associated with conducting multiple log runs between various ships will be mitigated by the fact it won't take an Osprey an hour to transit 60NM between ships.

 

[DocT]

MV T&R has day and night tanking codes. You need to be NSQ in the light level you’re tanking in and it’s a 365 day code. There’s no separate X for different types of tankers. The overwhelming majority of tankers Osprey guys use are KC-130s and I’d definitely send a nugget to a herc to get gas before he got behind a big jet. Air speeds for TAAR are based on the type of drogue. From a practical perspective, slower allows a larger power margin and reduces the chance of over torque behind the tanker.

I’m not sure if I’m missing something regarding blue water PMC. Managing fuel loads and weight while going to the beach and hitting different decks in the ARG (or loitering while trying to get a green deck at a boat working off an outdated airplan) is what you do as an assault pilot. If you can’t do that you shouldn’t be signing. Is there something about a CSG that makes this that much harder?

 

[CUBUFFS4134]

Nothing inherently difficult about doing trash and ass between ships, be it the ARG, CSG or BMD assets. Read the pubs, chair fly the comms and don't look like an asshole. About as basic as it gets when it comes to signing for an aircraft. Sure, managing fuel is critical, but welcome to being an aircraft commander.

Don't really know why there is push back to bringing helo bubbas in, and don't really care. Bottom line, it's already happening and will continue. Not sure if you noticed, but the major results now list one Maj CMD Ashore possibility as HELSEACOMBATWING/FLELOGMMWING. All three selected are HSC bubbas. If not is not slated there this year, someone will be next year likely.