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- Thread starter jagges84
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akamifeldman
Interplanetary Ambassador
That's an interesting statement, I've never thought about that before. But isn't it always better to "err on the side of caution"? Was waiting just weeks or months more (so intel could have been positively confirmed, so diplomatic avenues could be explored) so absolutely inconceivable?
Where does this one-dimensional view of the world, "either you're with us or you're against us," come from? The world is more complicated than "us" and "them."
Alright, I was in like fifth/sixth grade back then, so I can't answer with much precision as I'd like, but here goes: If I remember correctly, before we even went near the Balkans, there were realistic plans made. No foot soldier entered the country until after nearly all infrastructure and resistance had been destroyed. Wesley Clark proved that air power alone can win battles, and for the first time showed its alone effectiveness. We did it only after engaging the help of an international authority (NATO) The cause for taking Milosevic out of power was obvious, the charges egregious. His army was regularly killing people, engaging in "ethnic cleansing" all too reminiscent of Adolf Hitler. The proof was had, mass graves were almost immediately found, and are still being found today. Bottom line: There was clear cause for war, international support was ready and willing, an effective air war reduced risks to ground personel greately, Slobodan Milosevic was caught reletively quickly and put on trial for war crimes in an international tribunal, and, I believe there were zero causalties to armed force personel during the war!
Clinton was a genus who amazingly used the media to his advantage. You only wish Bush could do the same...
And while presiding over the greatest economic expansion in the history of the USA, possibly the history of civilization. And while creating a budget surplus. And while having oral s--...the man's a pimp.
Finally, this piece of tripe:
...I'll just let that sink in for a while, it'll take me a while to form a response to such an insanely ignorant, bigoted, and overall disgusting thought.
Everyone else, thanks for your responces, I think this debate is making progress!
to err on the side of caution: that's exactly what clinton did, nothing, and look where we ended up just a year after GWB took office. mmhmm...
it is my belief that our ecomomy/the state of being for the US is a direct representation of the President in office the 4 years (+) prior.
What about the dot-bomb era of late Clinton years. The low overhead, top heavy producers of intangibilities (WTF was that word again?). That should have been squashed early on, but was it, no! It was only late in the game where something HAD to be done to bust the bubble. Yahoo shares $220??? for WHAT? see attached file, it says a lot actually (take a look at AOL/TW suring the same time period). Look at the STEADY growth during GWB's tenure after cleaning up clinton's mistakes.
clinton's economic growth was debunked while he was preparing to leave office. re-read my second paragraph. I apologize for the non sequitur. I am furious at the last post... ARRRGH.
it is my belief that our ecomomy/the state of being for the US is a direct representation of the President in office the 4 years (+) prior.
umm, wasn't it just 4Q 2003 that the GDP was up some phenominal number, (the highest gain ever?). DESPITE Sep 11, the economy is slowly on the road to recovery. Tell me that Sep 11 didn't have an effect on the world economy, go ahead.
What about the dot-bomb era of late Clinton years. The low overhead, top heavy producers of intangibilities (WTF was that word again?). That should have been squashed early on, but was it, no! It was only late in the game where something HAD to be done to bust the bubble. Yahoo shares $220??? for WHAT? see attached file, it says a lot actually (take a look at AOL/TW suring the same time period). Look at the STEADY growth during GWB's tenure after cleaning up clinton's mistakes.
clinton's economic growth was debunked while he was preparing to leave office. re-read my second paragraph. I apologize for the non sequitur. I am furious at the last post... ARRRGH.
Attachments
Taxman2A
War were declared.
akamifeldman said:
Ok, I fully realize that you are a high school student, and I don't think that tactics has made it into most public school curriculum yet. That being said, I'm not going to jump all over your case for this statement- but I will say that it certainly isn't better to "err on the side of caution" in most circumstances. As big worm brought up, both at the tactical and strategic level timely decisions are necessary based on limited information. I'm not sure if you want to go Marines, but for your own sake you should learn this now before OCS and TBS, it will save you headache as a billet holder. Read MCDP 1-1 "Warfighting". You can find it and print it out on the internet. It's a quick and easy read that provides you with the fundamentals of manuever warfare. You should be able to read it cover to cover in a few hours.
guys....guys....guys.....let's not allow a sixteen or seventeen year old 11th grade high school student cause us to get our panties in a wad! He's just a boy trying to do a number on us....and judging from the responses made to his diatribes, he's been pretty effective. Don't continue to argue or try to reason with him....ignore him! I suspect many on this board wish it were possible to reach through the screen and slap him.....but it's not possible. I know he sounds like a liberal moron to many but he really hasn't lived long enough to really have experienced how the world really works. His ideas about a Utopian world where, like Rodney King, we all just get along is admirable but unfortunately, impossible, as those of us who have been around much longer than he realize. It's pretty obvious that regardless of whatever sound reasoning may be posted on this board, nothing being said here will be able to sway this young lad's opinions. He's not going to change his opinions regardless of how much we rant and rave, how passionate and reasoned are our arguments, nor how thorough are our facts. He's a product of his environment and other likeminded "thinkers" and regardless of what is said here, he's not going to change. I am comforted to realize with his "political world view" that it is highly unlikely this boy will ever be in a military leadership position and be entrusted with the safety and security of Americans. That is certainly a plus for all of us. The only Corps he might possibly make it in is the Peace Corps. He might even consider joining one of our truly great Democratic past-presidents, Jimmy Carter, and work with Habitat for Humanity. There is a place of service for everyone. However, we need warriors in the military. For some interesting background on this lad, take a look at his profile and his various posts on topics on the Airwarriors site. He's a teenaged boy who enjoys surfing. He has poor eyesight (poor eyesight isn't his fault....but he could change his poor foresight with additional real-life experiences). His father has a PhD but lost his job (which truly was unfortunate) for which Akamifeldman blamed President Bush. However, Akamifeldman mentions that six months later his dad became CEO of his own company with "millions of dollars in contracts." Trying to follow his logic I figured that since he blamed Bush for his dad's job loss, he would surely give Bush credit for the new and better one. But noooo! He describes our Commander-in-Chief in one of his posts as "a right-wing fundamentalist Christian bassakwards former cokehead hypocritical vile garbage spewing bastard." My goodness....it's hard to comprehend such "love" coming from a mild-mannered, "moderate" Democrat Jewish lad! Being a fundamentalist Christian myself, I wonder if he realizes that most true Christians, fundamentalists and otherwise, are staunch supporters of the State of Israel and the Jews? Akamifeldman is working hard to develop and enhance his "flying" skills by playing with Microsoft Flight Simulator and other related computer games. That's good....it allows less time for him to post his liberal views about military strategy on military sites. He thinks Clinton was a great president. He believes Gen. Wesley Clark was a great military leader who demonstrated that a war can be won using only air power. If that is true, then there is never a need for boots on the ground...just pilots and NFOs. He supports Kerry over George Bush to lead our country, which is his right. He isn't old enough to vote though, thank God. Akamifeldman indicates he wants to attend one of our service academies and become a military pilot, thus, an officer and a military leader. Unless many things change in his thinking, he will never be man enough to be a soilder. An effective military must have military leaders who will give orders and soilders who will follow them. I say let's ignore Akamifeldman for about four or five years and then invite him back and see what he has learned.
By the way Akamifeldman, I'm not addressing you in my missive shown above. My comments are to the men and women on this board, not to you, a mere lad with limited life experiences.....nor or my comments about the young messenger but the message delivered by the young messenger. Now, go on back to your flight simulator game and let the adults have some time to discuss things.
By the way Akamifeldman, I'm not addressing you in my missive shown above. My comments are to the men and women on this board, not to you, a mere lad with limited life experiences.....nor or my comments about the young messenger but the message delivered by the young messenger. Now, go on back to your flight simulator game and let the adults have some time to discuss things.
And while you are at it... NO... it has never been proven, nor will it ever be proven that you can win a war entirely from the air. Like the Taxman, I'm not going to jump you for tactics knowledge. I do however suggest that if you are truly serious about attempting to become a Marine that you read a bit more about our doctrine and tactics. We are an expeditionary COMBINED-ARMS force. As for your political views, I'm not even going to attempt to argue with you. I could do better trying to have a reasonable debate with a kosher pickle. Remember should you ever be lucky enough to be counted among our number that as a Marine Officer you are a professional warrior... not a politician. You may have heard the quote, "Its not for us to question why; for ours is but to do or die." (or something like that). It probably sounds a little extreme, but its true. Give that some thought before you finally decide on the Corps.
akamifeldman
Interplanetary Ambassador
Kindly, Eat ****. (refering to Mr. Doc)
akamifeldman
Interplanetary Ambassador
That's it, I've been baited, I don't get berated by some dumbass fundamentalist Christian:
Your utter lack of thought/consideration towards other viewpoints only reinforces your own and further locks you into ignorance.
You cannot make decisions based solely on ideology.
Your ideology demonstrates a severe lack of understanding of the natural world.
Your lack of understanding and lack of a desire for understanding indicates the absence of basic human essence.
You Suck At Life.
Your utter lack of thought/consideration towards other viewpoints only reinforces your own and further locks you into ignorance.
You cannot make decisions based solely on ideology.
Your ideology demonstrates a severe lack of understanding of the natural world.
Your lack of understanding and lack of a desire for understanding indicates the absence of basic human essence.
You Suck At Life.
cricechex
Active Member
AK, pretty dumb things to say to people who are where you say you want to be. I seriously question your desire to join the corps. Every boy's dream is to fly jets. I bet if you could fly F/A 18's in the Peace Corps, you would. So...I would have to say that you care nothing about what our military stands for, but to only fulfill your selfish desires. You need to learn and remember that you are a soldier/sailor FIRST, before a pilot.... You will take an oath to obey the orders of those appointed over you… in ONE nation under GOD. Yes, this nation was founded under Judeo/Christian values, and it isn't going to change just to satisfy your philosophy on life. You should read about the military as a whole. It believes strongly in the same morals and values and is not going to change for you either.
I’m not even going to start about your statement declaring Clinton as being a “pimp”. I feel sorry for any woman who ever gets involved with a punk like you. Marriage is not a “yeah, I’ll stay with you now, but I’ll leave or cheat on you if I can’t control myself”. It is a contract. You sign and are bound to it, just like in the military. Obviously, you have no concept of keeping your word, if what I have stated is true about you. I wouldn’t even let you near the military, you don’t want to defend our country or the world from evil, you just want to take advantage of tax dollars to fly jets.
I’m not even going to start about your statement declaring Clinton as being a “pimp”. I feel sorry for any woman who ever gets involved with a punk like you. Marriage is not a “yeah, I’ll stay with you now, but I’ll leave or cheat on you if I can’t control myself”. It is a contract. You sign and are bound to it, just like in the military. Obviously, you have no concept of keeping your word, if what I have stated is true about you. I wouldn’t even let you near the military, you don’t want to defend our country or the world from evil, you just want to take advantage of tax dollars to fly jets.
OK... yeah... I'll be the first to admit I am what you refer to as a "dumbass fundamentalist Christian". However, I was not trying to bait you. I simply reccomended you read up and know a little more about the organization you think you are going to join. Take it however you like it.
Akamai, your political opinions are your business. However, if you do decide to join up, remember that referring to your commander-in-chief as a "a right-wing fundamentalist Christian bassakwards former cokehead hypocritical vile garbage spewing bastard" is potentially punishable under the UCMJ, Article 88. Chances of it going to NJP may be low, but the chances of you making an A$$ of yourself to superiors are very high. Learn to suck it up and be professional, at least in public.
Secondly, if you do decide to join up, your skin had better triple in thickness from the moment you sign on the dotted line or you wouldn't last 10 seconds. People are going to disagree with you or get mad at you and they're going to let you know. You can't send them to sensitivity training just because you're offended. Learn a little tact instead of telling people to eat **** and that they suck at life.
Secondly, if you do decide to join up, your skin had better triple in thickness from the moment you sign on the dotted line or you wouldn't last 10 seconds. People are going to disagree with you or get mad at you and they're going to let you know. You can't send them to sensitivity training just because you're offended. Learn a little tact instead of telling people to eat **** and that they suck at life.
Wow. AK in the Corps. Hmm, that would scare me.
Scenario AK...
Let's dream for a minute shall we:
We have a republican president, someone you disagree with (I wont bother quoting what you have thought of our most recent president, as it has already been done), and we decide to go to war against Canada (where a fine province by the name of Quebec is waiting to accept you with open arms, by the way). You are zooming around in your gnarly, kicka** jet fighter plane you always dreamed about since you were little, and you get orders to drop a bomb in a Toronto neighborhood because Intel says that's where the baddies are. What are you gonna say? NO!?! Are you gonna get real low and slow and take a look for yourself? Hah, I can't see you following orders. I can see you either ending up in a non-extradition treaty country as a conscienscious objector, or in a federal prison.
Think seriously about your desire to join the Corps. I am sure there will be many cases where you will want to object to orders, but you'll just have to bite your lip and go with the flow. I hope you are ready for that.
It would seem to me that you have a severe distrust for everything that is republican (and yes I am making a generalization based on the polarity of your opinion of two individuals, but I bet I'm not far off), so you'll have to think about what it would be like to be in the Corps during a rebulican's tyrannical reign.
Now, if you look up and left a little bit, you'll notice that I'm a civvy, but I have had enough friends and family in different services to know that serving isn't about re-enacting Top Gun, or Iron Eagle, or <insert fighter pilot movie here>. This is the real deal, and for what it's worth, I don't know if I'd wanna be on a mission over hostile territory with you as my wingman. Who knows when you will decide to let your morals and your opinions of what should or shoudn't be done get in the way of dropping the bomb that will save our butts or pave the way for boots on the ground (or, wait, we'll win it all with air power).
::sigh::
Ah well, I couldn't resist posting.
As a challenge for you, AK, I want you to find two bad things to say about Clinton, and two good things to say about Bush, because they are not a saint and a spawn of satan respectively. Any person who thinks for themselves rather than following the directives on some leftist pamphlet or the ramblings of a registered Democrat school teacher should be able to come up with positives and negatives in any situation.
Anyhoo, that is all.
Scenario AK...
Let's dream for a minute shall we:
We have a republican president, someone you disagree with (I wont bother quoting what you have thought of our most recent president, as it has already been done), and we decide to go to war against Canada (where a fine province by the name of Quebec is waiting to accept you with open arms, by the way). You are zooming around in your gnarly, kicka** jet fighter plane you always dreamed about since you were little, and you get orders to drop a bomb in a Toronto neighborhood because Intel says that's where the baddies are. What are you gonna say? NO!?! Are you gonna get real low and slow and take a look for yourself? Hah, I can't see you following orders. I can see you either ending up in a non-extradition treaty country as a conscienscious objector, or in a federal prison.
Think seriously about your desire to join the Corps. I am sure there will be many cases where you will want to object to orders, but you'll just have to bite your lip and go with the flow. I hope you are ready for that.
It would seem to me that you have a severe distrust for everything that is republican (and yes I am making a generalization based on the polarity of your opinion of two individuals, but I bet I'm not far off), so you'll have to think about what it would be like to be in the Corps during a rebulican's tyrannical reign.
Now, if you look up and left a little bit, you'll notice that I'm a civvy, but I have had enough friends and family in different services to know that serving isn't about re-enacting Top Gun, or Iron Eagle, or <insert fighter pilot movie here>. This is the real deal, and for what it's worth, I don't know if I'd wanna be on a mission over hostile territory with you as my wingman. Who knows when you will decide to let your morals and your opinions of what should or shoudn't be done get in the way of dropping the bomb that will save our butts or pave the way for boots on the ground (or, wait, we'll win it all with air power).
::sigh::
Ah well, I couldn't resist posting.
As a challenge for you, AK, I want you to find two bad things to say about Clinton, and two good things to say about Bush, because they are not a saint and a spawn of satan respectively. Any person who thinks for themselves rather than following the directives on some leftist pamphlet or the ramblings of a registered Democrat school teacher should be able to come up with positives and negatives in any situation.
Anyhoo, that is all.
akamifeldman
Interplanetary Ambassador
Seems fair, as you say, both are human and have done good and bad things:
Clinton Negatives: 1) Several affairs illustrate a lack of control in this area of his life, and show he doesn't hold 'fidelity' as the highest of virtues. 2) The rush to complete an Israeli-Palestinian peace plan during his last few months in office show at this point he was more concerned with his place in the history books than what would be best for the people in the Middle East.
Bush Positives: 1) Inspiring speeches unified most people in the country immediately after 9/11. 2) Once 'he' makes a decision, there's no going back (this is also a bad thing, but some people think it shows strength of character, so I'll include it).
Eeew, now I feel diiirty!
Challenge to You Guys: Why do you find me and my views so reprehensible? I am going to serve and fight for my country just like many of you are doing now. My political and religious views are a little different than yours, thats all. Does that really matter when we're all unified in the same fight, against the same enemy, for the same cause?
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