COVID-19

[wink]

But they stopped short of defining 'temporary' or a reasonable, measurable end state, and that's a problem. Note that the courts don't have to make this definition up out of thin air, but they could've demanded it before considering the 'it's temporary' argument to be valid.

One of the problems with the pandemic response has been "one size fits all". The court will not define temporary . It depends on to many factors including what temporary is outside public health. They are usually vague so legislatures (democracy don't you know) get a crack at fixing things. If it comes back to the judiciary, they can tighten things up given the additional facts.

 

[Hair Warrior]

More than 7 million Americans to lose jobless benefits on Labor Day

Over seven million people across the U.S. will lose their unemployment benefits beginning on Monday as pandemic safety nets expire. The emergency federal jobless benefits are set to …

thehill.com

Thank goodness. This should have happened 4 mo ago (before the great re-masking).

I read an article the other day about a hotel cleaning person who was on 15 mo on unemployment, and she was dreading the end of unemployment bc she didn’t know if her hotel had a job for her. It’s like these people are living in some twilight zone where they exoect to be handed life on a silver platter, like they are owed something. Lady, c’mon, if you had 15 mo and no job, you could have learned basically any skill you wanted and changed your whole career. Learn a foreign language and become an interpreter. Learn to make and sell crafts on etsy. Learn to become an electrician, plumber, or roofer. Learn to operate a forklift or construction machinery. Literally pick any job in the world and start working toward it. She likely doesn’t have a college degree but obviously there are jobs out there that will pay for your college (and I don’t mean the military - lots of big companies, even in hospitality/food/travel industries).

 

[wink]

I have always thought the lengthy and generous unemployment benefits was a play by Democrat's to manipulate the labor marked. I have spoken to resort and food service managers that say they have had to raise salaries and/or benefits to lure workers back, even making personal calls to former employees to invite them back. It is my theory that the Administration was hoping businesses, having to compete with temporary government government benefits, would raise wages and be reflected in good labor data reports and allow them to brag on raising wages. Now, either I am wrong about that, or their pursuit of that strategy has back fired some because of the unemployment numbers lately. And it isn't just the jobless numbers alone. We have more jobs available than unemployed Americans. Almost everyone could work if they wanted. But the government has incentivized them to stay home. Glad this is passing. Now, if only we can get this Administration to back off the eviction moratorium, which they admit is unconstitutional.

 

[Spekkio]

And it isn't just the jobless numbers alone. We have more jobs available than unemployed Americans. Almost everyone could work if they wanted. But the government has incentivized them to stay home.

I think that it's more complex than that. In particular, child care. The vast majority of the 10,000,000 jobs available would barely cover the cost of babysitting - you'd need to make $40-45k /yr before taxes just to break even, the part time offer at Chipotle for $15/hr isn't going to cut it. Then there's a scarcity of sitters in many locations because of the media campaign against scaryvirus. You also still have many school districts that are still doing remote learning or some hybrid model, which is a lot more doable when a parent stays home.

COVID-19 normalized one member of the household being a stay at home parent for a while, and it turns out that's a better a arrangement than working just to pay someone else to raise your kid.

The other factor is Dr. Fauci is still on TV on a weekly basis telling everyone to be afraid of scary virus, and a non-zero amount of unemployed workers are listening to him.

 

[bcort]

What's involved in an antibody test, and how accurate are they? I don't know myself.

To answer your early question, DoD guidance was to give medical exemptions to those that had a serological antibody test done for previous infections. I linked it earlier in the thread, but here it is again:

Immunization Exemption Guidance

Exemption Guidance for immunizations

health.mil

I believe that guidance is from 2019. So whatever quality of test they had was good enough for every other vaccine and infection for the military. Since we know natural immunization is stronger and lasts longer than vaccination, we should have no reason to put covid under a different umbrella.


But alas, SECDEF has said previous infection does not count as fully vaccinated (duh, it's fixing better than), I wouldn't be surprised if that's alluding to also not granting exemptions for it.

Might be an interesting January for me. At least 27 Chair Force pilots are leading by example with their commissions.

 

[bcort]

Also, the Pfizer COMIRNATY labeled vaccine is the only one FDA approved. My skipper just said the command is treating that the same as the Pfizer vaccine operating under EUA. That's a very risky position to take and I don't believe had any actual backing as both SECDEF and SECNAV have been very clear with the FDA approval in their memos.

 

[ABMD]

To answer your early question, DoD guidance was to give medical exemptions to those that had a serological antibody test done for previous infections. I linked it earlier in the thread, but here it is again:

Immunization Exemption Guidance

Exemption Guidance for immunizations

health.mil

I believe that guidance is from 2019. So whatever quality of test they had was good enough for every other vaccine and infection for the military. Since we know natural immunization is stronger and lasts longer than vaccination, we should have no reason to put covid under a different umbrella.


But alas, SECDEF has said previous infection does not count as fully vaccinated (duh, it's fixing better than), I wouldn't be surprised if that's alluding to also not granting exemptions for it.

Might be an interesting January for me. At least 27 Chair Force pilots are leading by example with their commissions.

My CO sent me that article about the AF pilots. They won't be the last.

 

[SteveHolt!!!]

Also, the Pfizer COMIRNATY labeled vaccine is the only one FDA approved. My skipper just said the command is treating that the same as the Pfizer vaccine operating under EUA. That's a very risky position to take and I don't believe had any actual backing as both SECDEF and SECNAV have been very clear with the FDA approval in their memos.

This may be the most sea-lawyer nonsense objection I've seen yet. Comirnaty and EUA Pfizer are 100% identical. Arguing you don't have to take Pfizer I guess means you wait until the exact same thing is distributed to the military as Comirnaty in the very near future? Frankly, this is just pathetic.

 

[SlickAg]

 

[bcort]

This may be the most sea-lawyer nonsense objection I've seen yet. Comirnaty and EUA Pfizer are 100% identical. Arguing you don't have to take Pfizer I guess means you wait until the exact same thing is distributed to the military as Comirnaty in the very near future? Frankly, this is just pathetic.

Exactly, I'll wait until it's distributed as comirnaty. That is the fda approved Vax and the only one that can be mandated. Do you disagree with that legally?

 

[BigLuvin]

Also, the Pfizer COMIRNATY labeled vaccine is the only one FDA approved. My skipper just said the command is treating that the same as the Pfizer vaccine operating under EUA. That's a very risky position to take and I don't believe had any actual backing as both SECDEF and SECNAV have been very clear with the FDA approval in their memos.

I was wondering the same. Tomorrow I'm curious to see what the flight doc and legal have to say about this. From the FDA fact sheet:

1. [1] The licensed vaccine has the same formulation as the EUA-authorized vaccine and the products can be used interchangeably to provide the vaccination series without presenting any safety or effectiveness concerns. The products are legally distinct with certain differences that do not impact safety or effectiveness.

 

[Spekkio]

Exactly, I'll wait until it's distributed as comirnaty. That is the fda approved Vax and the only one that can be mandated. Do you disagree with that legally?

I was wondering the same. Tomorrow I'm curious to see what the flight doc and legal have to say about this. From the FDA fact sheet:

1. [1] The licensed vaccine has the same formulation as the EUA-authorized vaccine and the products can be used interchangeably to provide the vaccination series without presenting any safety or effectiveness concerns. The products are legally distinct with certain differences that do not impact safety or effectiveness.

Anyone who is getting this deep into the details is on the wrong side of this. Get the vaccine and stfu.

 

[BigLuvin]

Anyone who is getting this deep into the details is on the wrong side of this. Get the vaccine and stfu.

Honestly that's the problem. Most are willing to do whatever the government says without questioning and getting deep into the details for something that has been politicized and not adding up. Will I end up getting the vaccine, yes at some point but not without research and questioning.

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

Exactly, I'll wait until it's distributed as comirnaty. That is the fda approved Vax and the only one that can be mandated. Do you disagree with that legally?

Yes.

Q&A for Comirnaty (COVID-19 Vaccine mRNA)

FDA conducted a thorough evaluation of the data and information submitted in the Biologics License Application (BLA) for Comirnaty before making a determination that the vaccine is safe and effective in preventing COVID-19 in individuals 16 years of age and older.

www.fda.gov

"How is Comirnaty (COVID-19 VACCINE, mRNA) related to the PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?

The FDA-approved Pfizer-BioNTech product Comirnaty (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) and the FDA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine under EUA have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series without presenting any safety or effectiveness concerns. Therefore, providers can use doses distributed under EUA to administer the vaccination series as if the doses were the licensed vaccine. For purposes of administration, doses distributed under the EUA are interchangeable with the licensed doses. The Vaccine Information Fact Sheet for Recipients and Caregivers provides additional information about both the approved and authorized vaccine."

I double-checked the memos. No mention of Comirnaty, or any manufacturer or brand name. I don't really see a credible argument for "Comirnaty is approved, but the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine isn't." It sounds more like, "No, I don't want acetaminophen, I want Tylenol."

But whatever, this'll all be behind us in 90 days, one way or the other.

 

[SlickAg]

But whatever, this'll all be behind us in 90 days, one way or the other.

By “this” do you mean covid at large, the Navy’s policies regarding it, masks, HPCONs, port calls, liberty restrictions...?

I don’t see what’s wrong with individuals doing their own due diligence and making decisions they feel are best for themselves, their families, and their own livelihoods and well-being. Instead of castigating people for their decisions, perhaps we can all try to understand their points of view, acknowledge them, and analyze the chain of events that led to them thinking that way.