COVID-19

[SlickAg]

“The trove of documents includes two previously unpublished grant proposals that were funded by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, as well as project updates relating to the EcoHealth Alliance’s research, which has been scrutinized amid increased interest in the origins of the pandemic.”

New Details Emerge About Coronavirus Research at Chinese Lab

More than 900 pages of materials related to U.S.-funded coronavirus research in China were released following a FOIA lawsuit by The Intercept.

theintercept.com

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1435053515785662464

 

[Spekkio]

Honestly that's the problem. Most are willing to do whatever the government says without questioning and getting deep into the details for something that has been politicized and not adding up. Will I end up getting the vaccine, yes at some point but not without research and questioning.

When you use the phrase "the government" you are demonstrating that you are a grade A dumbass. When you think that this non-existent entity is making decisions about the safety of the COVID-19 vaccine you are pants-on-head retarded. Stfu and get the vaccine.

(I promise I'll say 100 hail maries for using the forbidden R-word. But since I'm an athiest it's probably worth the toilet paper I wiped my ass with tonight).

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

By “this” do you mean covid at large, the Navy’s policies regarding it, masks, HPCONs, port calls, liberty restrictions...?

No, just the initial teething of the new mandate in the military. I'd like to think that once most everyone in the military is vaccinated, the higher-ups can finally let things get back to normal, but that's probably naive.

I don’t see what’s wrong with individuals doing their own due diligence and making decisions they feel are best for themselves, their families, and their own livelihoods and well-being. Instead of castigating people for their decisions, perhaps we can all try to understand their points of view, acknowledge them, and analyze the chain of events that led to them thinking that way.

I don't recall trying to shut down anyone's point of view. If I did, it wasn't intentional. At any rate, I'm not debating, "Should you get vaccinated or not?" I was discussing the aforementioned memos and their interpretation. But I'm open to further discussion.

 

[SlickAg]

No, just the initial teething of the new mandate in the military. I'd like to think that once most everyone in the military is vaccinated, the higher-ups can finally let things get back to normal, but that's probably naive.

I don't recall trying to shut down anyone's point of view. If I did, it wasn't intentional. At any rate, I'm not debating, "Should you get vaccinated or not?" I was discussing the aforementioned memos and their interpretation. But I'm open to further discussion.

I don’t know where you’re at in your military career, but I’ll agree that thinking all of a sudden things will go back to normal once everyone is vaccinated is naive. You honestly think someone in charge is going to hang their ass out on the line and be the first person to rescind covid restrictions? Ask yourself why, if the vaccine is so effective, why we have to wear masks. Because vaccinated people can still spread it, right? Is that going to go away now that everyone is vaccinated? Of course not. Again, if this was just about saving lives, the military would be better off banning tobacco use, riding motorcycles, and suicide.

I understand the desire to get back to normal, but have any of the “temporary” restrictions been temporary? Two weeks to flatten the curve! Wear a mask until we get vaccines! Mandatory vaccinations! Keep wearing masks even if you’re vaccinated! Sound familiar?

If the military is going to separate people for what will ultimately be not following a lawful order, I don’t see any issue with individuals taking every legal recourse of their own, to include differentiating between brand name versus generic.

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

I don’t know where you’re at in your military career, but I’ll agree that thinking all of a sudden things will go back to normal once everyone is vaccinated is naive. You honestly think someone in charge is going to hang their ass out on the line and be the first person to rescind covid restrictions? Ask yourself why, if the vaccine is so effective, why we have to wear masks. Because vaccinated people can still spread it, right? Is that going to go away now that everyone is vaccinated? Of course not. Again, if this was just about saving lives, the military would be better off banning tobacco use, riding motorcycles, and suicide.

Transmission doesn't (or maybe just shouldn't) matter when everyone is vaccinated. What does it matter how leaky the vaccine is when it cuts down on infection by 90+% in the first place, and greatly reduces severe reactions and hospitalizations in the rare cases of breakthrough infections? Haven't people been arguing for 400 pages that this thing is basically just the flu with extra steps? Why wouldn't the military being vaccinated against it matter?

I understand the desire to get back to normal, but have any of the “temporary” restrictions been temporary? Two weeks to flatten the curve! Wear a mask until we get vaccines! Mandatory vaccinations! Keep wearing masks even if you’re vaccinated! Sound familiar?

I mean, it's basically the theme song of this thread. I'm as pissed off about moving the goalposts as anyone. Honestly I think we're in violent agreement here, maybe I'm just more hopeful that the vaccine being mandated is enough of a catalyst to end this Groundhog Day.

If the military is going to separate people for what will ultimately be not following a lawful order, I don’t see any issue with individuals taking every legal recourse of their own, to include differentiating between brand name versus generic.

I think you misunderstood. There's no generic version. [Edit: after re-reading, I was the one who misunderstood you here. Your point was that if a legal technicality can be borne out, people should be allowed to explore it if it's what's best for them.] Maybe the Tylenol thing was a poor analogy, it was just meant to serve as an example of misunderstanding that the same medicine can have two different names. Yeah, in hindsight it was actually a terrible analogy on my part, I'll admit that. But I agree, people are going to do (and should do) what's best for them and for their families.

 

[bcort]

Transmission doesn't (or maybe just shouldn't) matter when everyone is vaccinated. What does it matter how leaky the vaccine is when it cuts down on infection by 90+% in the first place, and greatly reduces severe reactions and hospitalizations in the rare cases of breakthrough infections? Haven't people been arguing for 400 pages that this thing is basically just the flu with extra steps? Why wouldn't the military being vaccinated against it matter?

I mean, it's basically the theme song of this thread. I'm as pissed off about moving the goalposts as anyone. Honestly I think we're in violent agreement here, maybe I'm just more hopeful that the vaccine being mandated is enough of a catalyst to end this Groundhog Day.

I think you misunderstood. There's no generic version. [Edit: after re-reading, I was the one who misunderstood you here. Your point was that if a legal technicality can be borne out, people should be allowed to explore it if it's what's best for them.] Maybe the Tylenol thing was a poor analogy, it was just meant to serve as an example of misunderstanding that the same medicine can have two different names. Yeah, in hindsight it was actually a terrible analogy on my part, I'll admit that. But I agree, people are going to do (and should do) what's best for them and for their families.

Not a great analogy but still gets the point that you don't want to accept. There is a legal difference in the shot administered under the EUA and the shot administered under FDA approval. Of course you should be able to take either one as part of the two shot series (unlike going from Pfizer to Moderna to get the two doses), just like you can go from Tylenol to generic. But we're not talking about the series, we're talking about mandating the shot, particularly which shot.

To the idiot that keeps saying stfu get vaccinated. Besides the obvious tangent from the current discussion (mandating which shot), you seem like a well-spoken, informed person who could provide valuable insight to some questions. What's your position on people that had covid? Should they have to get vaccinated for it in the military? What about people that were part of trials that were last vaccinated fall of '20? They should be required to get another shot for it by now right?

 

[wink]

So, I have been substitute teaching in a HS and catching up on my school email account. The weekly tally since school opening is running about 1% new positive COVID cases. That is 30-40 positive out of 4200 staff and students. There is no mask mandate. In my classes of 25-30 I was seeing 3-4 kids optionally wearing masks. I only saw one staff member masked, a guidance counselor, but I didn't come across more than about 9 staff. No deaths reported and no one has heard of any student being hospitalized.

At the end of the last term we were all wearing masks and the weekly positive rate was around .2-.3%. Again, no serious cases in students reported or deaths in staff.

With this limited data (no info on vaccination rates), it is my take that even though rates are up in this school, it is proving the case that young people are not helpless lambs being sent to the slaughter. It is a non-event, except for the teachers that have to help get the kid get caught up.

 

[jackjack]

It's hard to make a case that the Vaccines are too dangerous. For males under 40, the J&J (same type as astra) is an option because of lower heart inflammation and similar clotting. Though overall the CDC is still recommending mRNA

You would need to add the Heart inflammation risk. Again, it is less than actually getting covid.
The EMA analysis of cases found:

• Pfizer-BioNTech - 145 cases of myocarditis and 138 cases of pericarditis out of 177m doses given
• Moderna - 19 case of myocarditis and 19 cases of pericarditis out of 20 million doses given

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7027e2.htm

Risk of thrombocytopenia and thromboembolism after covid-19 vaccination and SARS-CoV-2 positive testing: self-controlled case series study

Objective To assess the association between covid-19 vaccines and risk of thrombocytopenia and thromboembolic events in England among adults. Design Self-controlled case series study using national data on covid-19 vaccination and hospital admissions. Setting Patient level data were obtained...

www.bmj.com

 

[Hair Warrior]

So, to all the people who doubted the Wuhan lab leak (and believed the lies of China), there’s pretty solid evidence that it’s all true.

Knowing that this virus was engineered to be more transmissable, does it change your opinion of any of the mitigation measures? Would you say the US should buy any masks or hand sanitizer from China?

 

[FrankTheTank]

So, to all the people who doubted the Wuhan lab leak (and believed the lies of China), there’s pretty solid evidence that it’s all true.

Knowing that this virus was engineered to be more transmissable, does it change your opinion of any of the mitigation measures? Would you say the US should buy any masks or hand sanitizer from China?

Yup and Fauci caught lying again.. ? <—- My surprised face

https://news.yahoo.com/rand-paul-says-fauci-lied-221700342.html

https://www.worldtribune.com/interc...for-wuhan-lab-fails-to-mention-anthony-fauci/

 

[robav8r]

Yup and Fauci caught lying again.. ? <—- My surprised face

https://news.yahoo.com/rand-paul-says-fauci-lied-221700342.html

https://www.worldtribune.com/interc...for-wuhan-lab-fails-to-mention-anthony-fauci/

Calling @taxi1

 

[Spekkio]

To the idiot that keeps saying stfu get vaccinated.

The only idiots are the people asking dumb questions and citing research they don't understand.

Besides the obvious tangent from the current discussion (mandating which shot),

There's no legitimate question about this because MTF's across the nation are setting up shot-ex's where the actual MDs make sure you get the one that's FDA approved. No government conspiracy and no need to spend hours digging into medical research that is beyond your level of understanding.

What's your position on people that had covid? Should they have to get vaccinated for it in the military?

My personal opinion is that it shouldn't be necessary, but it's DOD policy to get it and it won't hurt outside of some arm soreness.

What about people that were part of trials that were last vaccinated fall of '20? They should be required to get another shot for it by now right?

Wrong.

 

[Spekkio]

I understand the desire to get back to normal, but have any of the “temporary” restrictions been temporary? Two weeks to flatten the curve! Wear a mask until we get vaccines! Mandatory vaccinations! Keep wearing masks even if you’re vaccinated! Sound familiar?

The military, as a federal government entity, has generally taken the 'we're going to follow CDC guidance' stance... and enforces it more strictly than state and local governments.

So the answer to the question is that we'll get back to normal when Dr. Fauci says we can or Biden loses the next election, whichever comes first.

 

[robav8r]

So the answer to the question is that we'll get back to normal when Dr. Fauci says we can or Biden loses the next election, whichever comes first.

Probably true, sadly. Horrifying, but probably true nonetheless . . . .

 

[wink]

So the answer to the question is that we'll get back to normal when the CDC says we can.

And that is unacceptable. The CDC is not interested in getting us back to normal. Not their job. Their charter/mission is categorically public health, in the broader sense, and in the case of a pandemic, virology. They are not qualified to judge the other interests in play. Imagine a 3 star making major decisions on the advise of just his N7 or N1? That is what we have in our federal Executive. And it isn't just this Executive. Been going on for some time.