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COVID-19

S

SlickAg

Registered User
pilot
wink said:
Under the heading of FAILURE ( models, leaders, polices) we may be able to add over use of ventilators. Yup, that's right. While NY Gov Cuomo ranted about needing 30K ventilators (statewide), they have gotten by with about 4K. Good thing. Docs are now beginning to find evidence, dreaded useless dangerous anecdotal evidence, that COVID patients may be intubated unnecessarily and put on ventilators too long. And, some of these docs, in the trenches with their own observations to inform them, are changing procedures based on, ? that anecdotal evidence.
BLUF Intubated patients on ventilators usually die at a rate of around 50%. COVID patients on ventilators are dying at a rate closed to 80%. now before all you Holiday Inn Express guests go on and on about how deadly COVID is from the get go, there is other evidence including and interesting fact about blood oxygen levels, labored breathing and fatality rates of folks not intubated for weeks. YMMV.

Speaking of anecdotal evidence ( you do know that we convict in courts of law based on anecdotal evidence every day ), while the side effects of hydroxychloroquine in its use for COVID is debatable, the side effects and safety in a general sense is known because of it's approval and use for many decades. More over, we know from observation (oh dear, anecdotal evidence) that the rate of death from the side effects in COVID patients is almost unheard of. A patient may not be cured and perish anyway, but apparently, not from side effects due to the drug, but lack of efficacy. Was it not worth a try? All you guys holding the reins tight on this will take your chances if a loved one is hospitalized with COVID. Guaranfuckingtee it.
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Fantastic post.

If it came out later that he had known about hydroxychloroquine and DIDN’T say anything they’d be calling for his head for allowing (more) people to die needlessly. Orange Man Bad is the message here. Don’t you know this is all the President’s fault? Not China’s.
 
JTS11

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
wink said:
Speaking of anecdotal evidence ( you do know that we convict in courts of law based on anecdotal evidence every day )
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I know you're a law enforcement officer, but do you mean 'circumstantial' and not anecdotal here?
 
HokiePilot

HokiePilot

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
@wink I am not one trying to hold the reins tight on any sort of solution. Especially now. If I (or any one I knew was sick) severely sick, with minimal hope, I would have no problem with a doctor making an informed hunch.

I went to college with Matt Bellina. He was a year ahead of me. He became a Prowler pilot and was diagnosed with ALS 6 years ago. He has been advocating for right to try medication for a while. It was passed by congress and signed by President Trump 2 years ago. It is amazing that he is still alive.


But medical knowledge is advanced, by controlled, randomized trials. That is how we are able to show drug or procedure is safe and effective. Medical ethics requires informed consent. That is how we learn new things. There are plenty of times drugs enter trials and they are cancelled once evidence shows they are not safe or effective.

The first batch of experimental CoVid-19 vaccines have already been given to people. (I think) other people were given a shot of saline. They were then sent back into the world. It will take some time to develop preliminary data. Do the get sick? Is it effective? And then step up to a larger population.

Fortunately, there is a shotgun approach to vaccines right now. Lots of organisations are trying lots of different things. If one doesn't make it, hopefully others will.
 
J

jackjack

Active Member
There are many drugs being studied. One in the US. A double blind study.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200413144055.htm
Study finds remdesivir effective against a key enzyme of coronavirus that causes COVID-19
Remdesivir already in human trials in search for treatment of deadly disease
Scientists have shown that the drug remdesivir is highly effective in stopping the replication mechanism of the coronavirus that causes COVID-19. The finding follows closely on research demonstrating how the drug worked against the Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) virus, a related coronavirus.
 
J

jackjack

Active Member
Sorry, the edit time expired. I should have used fox news
https://www.foxnews.com/science/exp...-remdesivir-is-showing-early-promise-research
Experimental coronavirus drug remdesivir is showing early promise, research says
2014 to fight the Ebola epidemic, works in detail. He likens the polymerase to the engine of the virus, responsible for synthesizing the virus' genome.

"If you target the polymerase, the virus cannot spread, so it's a very logical target for treatment," Götte said.

The lab's work shows how remdesivir tricks the virus by mimicking its building blocks.

"These coronavirus polymerases are sloppy and they get fooled, so the inhibitor gets incorporated many times and the virus can no longer replicate," Götte explained.

NBC
 
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S

SlickAg

Registered User
pilot
Gonzo08 said:
Since you didn't post the actual article, I'll just point out that all I see here is a sensationalized headline with no quotes from any Democrats.
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Here’s the article buddy. Read it for me, and let me know if you recognize any names. What else ya got?

www.google.com

Economic meltdown gives Democrats new hope in Texas

A double whammy of the coronavirus shutdown and oil industry woes have Republicans in the state reeling.
www.google.com www.google.com
 
wink

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
HokiePilot said:
@wink I am not one trying to hold the reins tight on any sort of solution. Especially now. If I (or any one I knew was sick) severely sick, with minimal hope, I would have no problem with a doctor making an informed hunch.

I went to college with Matt Bellina. He was a year ahead of me. He became a Prowler pilot and was diagnosed with ALS 6 years ago. He has been advocating for right to try medication for a while. It was passed by congress and signed by President Trump 2 years ago. It is amazing that he is still alive.


But medical knowledge is advanced, by controlled, randomized trials. That is how we are able to show drug or procedure is safe and effective. Medical ethics requires informed consent. That is how we learn new things. There are plenty of times drugs enter trials and they are cancelled once evidence shows they are not safe or effective.

The first batch of experimental CoVid-19 vaccines have already been given to people. (I think) other people were given a shot of saline. They were then sent back into the world. It will take some time to develop preliminary data. Do the get sick? Is it effective? And then step up to a larger population.

Fortunately, there is a shotgun approach to vaccines right now. Lots of organisations are trying lots of different things. If one doesn't make it, hopefully others will.
Click to expand...
I am aware of the new legislation. I know that in most cases a doc can prescribe off label meds like in the case at hand, and some folks even get experimental drugs. And, of course, there is good reason for the ordinary approval procedures of the FDA. Actual point of my post was to comment on the ridiculous position in this emergency that anecdotal evidence, observed by medical professionals, is worthless and a full blown FDA approval process with years long double blind studies be done before anyone can let word of hope cross their lips.
 
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