DADT repealed

[The Chief]

.... who have no idea what it is like to actually deploy, ...

Tend to agree with you on most points. Folks that talk do not understand shipboard life where sailors are sleeping with less than 3 inches of separation between their "beds". That aspect concerns me most. Never knew DADT, my time they were not allowed in the military, that said I bet that at any given time 15 - 20 of my division was of that persuasion. Only when they did something really stupid did we take action.

What rattles my cage more than anything else is the folks that talk about " ... doing your job ...". Well in my 18 years I did not ever have a job, a committment, yes, responsibilities, yes but a job with a job description, NO. Do the folks that talk about a "job" mean that if the refueling crew should notice a hydraulic line spurting fluid on the deck they should not do anything because it is not their job? Of if a body falls overboard they should not respond with immediate action because it was the "port lookout's job?" Lot of folk know not of what they speak.

Anyway, it is done, we must move on. NAVADMIN 411 and NAVADMIN 412 (Eyes only) were released today and provide a roadmap for the immediate future. You gotta play with the hand you are dealt.

 

[Brett327]

This is all very amusing. Nothing will happen and nobody will even notice that the law has changed - mark my words. All you Chicken Littles will eat your words - morons.

Brett

 

[insanebikerboy]

This is all very amusing. Nothing will happen and nobody will even notice that the law has changed - mark my words. All you Chicken Littles will eat your words - morons.

Brett

People who may be expressing a personal opinion about it are morons, apparently since they are in contrast to your opinion.

Grow up.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Brett

Who are you and where did you come from???????

Welcome back.

 

[bunk22]

Here is what I don't get. There is a big difference between working side by side with someone, and sleeping and showering side by side. This isn't a 9-5. It isn't a hair dressing job. There is much more to the military than working side by side. If I'm in the showers at the gym now, and there are gay dudes, I don't know it. Ignorance is bliss. Now, I may know that I'm showering with a bunch of gay guys. Now MY values are compromised. You may be fine with it, but I'm not. It's not the same as color or race, it is something completely different. They don't let us shower with the women, this should be the same thing.

I think there is nothing wrong with your view and/or opinion. It is what it is and yet I see some on here who seem to believe that if don't agree with doing away with DODT, you some how, some way are ignorant or whatever. You don't like being around homo's or their junk, nothing wrong with that.

With that said, I'll say it again, I don't care either way. Does not bother me, never has. Hell, I know the secrets of a few folks in the military and being gay is no worse than some of the other stuff I know of that goes on. I don't think much of anything will change. I assume there will be some harrassment type issues on a small scale...hell, I'll probably get busted for homo jokes. PC is not my thing.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

I am afraid of bees, and butt pirates... I don't want to secretly be either... I think I should be accomadated too, after all I was born this way... hah!

Cripes, I never really felt like I was out of touch or from another "generation", but do now... the free thinkers, enlightened real world generation where everything and anything is A.O.K. can have the military and everything else... precruise, oncruise pregnancy rates, defacto promotion quotas lacking merit, folks with more degrees than flight hours, etc, etc, etc... Welcome to New France.

My father asks me what the hell Ive done to "his" Navy, I sadly ask the same... I don't think it's any more proficient for being softer. I fully believe we will get asses handed to us as I watch on the tube during the next "big one". We are focused consistently on the wrong shit. DADT may or may not have been "fair", but not having Bob bring Mike to the Christmas party had no discernable effect (over manned) on warfighting capability, morale, readiness etc. Next year it might. The military is good at taking an absolute shit sandwich on bread they don't prefer, and smiling with corn kernels in their teeth for all to see (or at least reporting in readiness tracking programs that they did).

Gentlemen shouldn't comprimise their morals, and with this, my moral compass is firmly pointing in another direction from the Military's.

I should go chain myself to the White House gate and demand "Bring back DADT!"

 

[Deleted member 24525]

got to a agree with BRett on this whole thing WGAFF? (that's who gives a flying fvck for you not in the know)
But I still think we will get slammed with more GMT and other bullshit training

 

[eas7888]

Gentlemen shouldn't comprimise their morals, and with this, my moral compass is firmly pointing in another direction from the Military's.

I don't quite understand WHY this has any bearing on the situation. Like many people, I personally don't agree with the lifestyle choices of some people, but as someone who follows libertarian political values, I believe the government has no right to tell people what they can and cannot do in their personal life. There are limits to this, but this isn't a battle worth fighting.

By removing DADT, your moral compass can still point wherever it pleases. This policy isn't forcing anyone to BE gay, it's merely allowing the flamers to come out of the closet.

 

[Clux4]

Let me just come out and say this before this thread goes into the shitter or locked.
When your wife goes around humping the Chief or Santa, whose values were compromised at that point in time; yours or your wife? I hope you say your wife because she broke the marriage vows. If that is then the case, what is your problem with the gay guy whose values allow him to get it in the ass? Your values are only compromised if you encouraged the guy to venture into such a lifestyle.

There are people sleeping around on Det. and Cruises and I don't hear you folks whining about values. In most cases, everyone just turns their head. So what has changed?

 

[Brett327]

Who are you and where did you come from???????

Welcome back.

Thanks, brother. Port call Dubai. Had to explode on the scene with authority.

Brett

 

[CommodoreMid]

There are people sleeping around on Det. and Cruises and I don't hear you folks whining about values. In most cases, everyone just turns their head. So what has changed?

This. I have always found it hilarious that many people on this board and been in the same units as me who freely talk about hooking up with women outside of marriage are so opposed to people who are attracted to others of the same sex being in the military. For the record, I find homosexual conduct immoral and I don't engage in sex outside of marriage for the same reason, but engaging in either activity should not be grounds for not serving in the military.

 

[eas7888]

. . . but engaging in either activity should not be grounds for not serving in the military.

I can't agree with you on this point. I feel that if someone can't keep a promise as simple as their vows, how can they be trusted to operate millions of dollars worth of equipment in high stress situations?

 

[Brunes]

I am afraid of bees, and butt pirates... I don't want to secretly be either... I think I should be accomadated too, after all I was born this way... hah!

Cripes, I never really felt like I was out of touch or from another "generation", but do now... the free thinkers, enlightened real world generation where everything and anything is A.O.K. can have the military and everything else... precruise, oncruise pregnancy rates, defacto promotion quotas lacking merit, folks with more degrees than flight hours, etc, etc, etc... Welcome to New France.

My father asks me what the hell Ive done to "his" Navy, I sadly ask the same... I don't think it's any more proficient for being softer. I fully believe we will get asses handed to us as I watch on the tube during the next "big one". We are focused consistently on the wrong shit. DADT may or may not have been "fair", but not having Bob bring Mike to the Christmas party had no discernable effect (over manned) on warfighting capability, morale, readiness etc. Next year it might. The military is good at taking an absolute shit sandwich on bread they don't prefer, and smiling with corn kernels in their teeth for all to see (or at least reporting in readiness tracking programs that they did).

Gentlemen shouldn't comprimise their morals, and with this, my moral compass is firmly pointing in another direction from the Military's.

I should go chain myself to the White House gate and demand "Bring back DADT!"

Bolded part is an interesting sentiment....because every day that a gay or lesbian person holds a job in the military under DADT -They are being forced to lie about who they are...That isn't honor or integrity. They get promoted, advanced, and recognized without their true loved ones there. They have to introduce everyone to their "roommate." Seems a bit odd that THEIR moral compass should have to kowtow to yours (which isn't affected in the least by any of this).

I can't agree with you on this point. I feel that if someone can't keep a promise as simple as their vows, how can they be trusted to operate millions of dollars worth of equipment in high stress situations?

Not to mention...Article 134-Adultery.

 

[phrogdriver]

I can't agree with you on this point. I feel that if someone can't keep a promise as simple as their vows, how can they be trusted to operate millions of dollars worth of equipment in high stress situations?

Then there are a lot of people who need to get kicked out then. I won't even get started on stories from what I've seen, both to protect the innocent and the guilty.

The adultery rule is to prevent adultery that is contrary to good order and discipline or brings discredit upon the armed forces, not to be a morals catch-all, at least as it's written. Unfortunately, it is unevenly applied, so that no one really knows what it means. For example, it's to prevent a superior from banging a subordinate's spouse, not to prevent general screwing around. Ever read "The Right Stuff?" 5 of the 7 Mercury astronauts were probably not worthy of being entrusted with their equipment by your standard. It's kind of like the fact that lying in general is not against the rules, but making a false official statement is.

Don't want to go down a rabbit-hole on this one, but the rules should be applied for the welfare and discipline of the force, not the enforcement of a particular moral code.

 

[Recovering LSO]

There are people sleeping around on Det. and Cruises and I don't hear you folks whining about values.

You're painting with too broad of a brush. If you're not hearing people "whining" about it, you're not listening.

I've posted this before and I'll post it here again. This matter will never be resolved because at the end of the day it comes down to whether or not you believe that being a homosexual is a choice or not. If you feel people are born that way - go find a racial minority (perhaps Ms Parks) and explain to her how you and her are the same. If you feel its a choice, you'll need to answer the cliched question that all gay rights supporters ask, "when did you decide to be straight?" Regardless of where you fall out on this, until an independent and politically unmotivated scientist finds a "gay gene" this argument will continue. And as long as that happens there will be Bretts out there who think that people who disagree with him are morons.