Deployment video causing heat for Enterprise Skipper

[OnTopTime]

You mean day in and day out stuff like the callsign "Master?"

Let's ask him if his JO squadron mates are going to stop using that callsign. I hope they don't.

 

[IRfly]

One quibble, $3 million in bennies? Would not be too sure of that, lots of changes are in the wind, some significant changes already made while folks not watching. One biggie; Health Care for Life. that is already gone. Retirees over 65 yo can no longer use militiary health care facilities unless they have Medicare Part B. That costs me $366 month, as I understand the new rates. TFL will be the same. While $4 grand a year is not a deal breaker, it does buy less Jack Daniels. However, if you are at or below the poverty line, income wise, yours will be free.

Fair enough...Let's say somewhere around $50K/year over 40 years (holding dollar value constant) comes to around $2 million. But when you think about it, if your commitment as an aviator is up when you've got 12 years in, then it's $2 million for eight more years. That's what goes through most folks' minds, I think. And UAVs add a whole different dimension to the discussion. All of our jobs might be taken by E-3s and -4s in twenty years.

 

[Recovering LSO]

Let's make a distinction here between the behavior that CAPT Honors was relieved for and the behavior that you are worried is threatened, as described above.

And you don't think its trickling down?

 

[bunk22]

CAPT Honors was a senior officer in a position of great responsibility, who in his official capacity as XO of a CVN used Navy resources to distribute material of questionable taste to every person on his ship, from O-7 all the way down to the newest boot. In doing so, he compromised his ability to be an effective leader.

Yet from all accounts, he was an effective leader and continued to be so 4 years after the fact. He didnt comprise shit, it's a term used by senior leadership to justify the decision. His actions didnt fit into the vaccum of leadership 101, of which one cannot stray, ever it seems.

 

[HercDriver]

What color is the sky in your world...?

To make my point a little more clearly, and you still might not be able to relate: if you take a ready room full of young dudes who have volunteered to do some crazy dangerous shit for lousy pay, and are away from home for months at a time - and then ask them to say please, thank you, shoot instead of shit, darn it instead of fuck, and roll Nat Geo documentaries for roll'ems - dudes are gonna start taking long hard looks at the value of staying in.

This may come as a shock to you, but a lot of us are not so enamored with the "work" side of this job that we wouldn't consider leaving. Go scroll through any number of threads on this website and you'll find guys weighing their options because of low job satisfaction, pay, decreasing benefits, deployments, fitrep 500, shitty spineless leadership, etc... For a large chunk of Naval Aviators below the rank of O-5, its is the camaraderie and ready room life that keeps the job unique and enjoyable. Its a big part of what keeps dudes putting on the green pajamas instead of a shirt and tie. The O-4 > 10 pay isn't making the night traps worth it - and if leadership continues to take the enjoyable parts of this job away, they'll have less people they need to worry about paying.

So you stay in your ivory tower and look down your nose at rest of us with our "immature and scatological behavior".

I take this job very seriously.

smiley face inserted to make everyone feel happy

Paddles, you seem to want to make this about my taste; I've never said I was offended by the videos (I wasn't), but it is no great stretch to say that the videos contained racy or lewd content and were headlined by a senior officer on the ship. It ain't a perch in an ivory tower that makes me say that (I live in a modest clapboard house, BTW, but do have a killer office overlooking the runway here, but the walls are ecru, not ivory), it is just common sense that makes me say that. Nor have I looked down my nose at anyone, so quit getting spun up.

So it isn't hard to figure that it puts Navy leadership in the position to defend stuff like this, which is a tough position to be in. I don't think Capt Honors should have been fired, but I understand the reasons for it.

I spent 5 years on ships in the CG as a young enlisted guy, so salty language/coarse humor doesn't bother me, but I wouldn't want a video from any initiation I was involved in to make it to youTube...that's a no-brainer.

 

[OnTopTime]

Yet from all accounts, he was an effective leader and continued to be so 4 years after the fact. He didnt comprise shit, it's a term used by senior leadership to justify the decision. His actions didnt fit into the vaccum of leadership 101, of which one cannot stray, ever it seems.

My impression is that the crew of the Enterprise really liked their XO, for the most part they enjoyed the videos because they relieved boredom and tension; the attitude was, "he's a regular guy, I can be his buddy." His goal of helping morale was admirable, but his execution sucked. We could have a nice debate on leadership styles and qualities that probably wouldn't change any minds or cover any new ground, but the XO, especially an O-6 CVN XO, shouldn't be fostering an attitude wherein junior enlisted think that they can be his buddy, especially by doing it with material of questionable taste.

 

[OnTopTime]

And you don't think its trickling down?

Oh sure, I think there will be instances where local leadership takes the wrong cue from Big Navy and tries to enforce standards that go too far on those that don't need any correction. But after a bit of time, everyone should realize that this whole affair isn't about junior officers (or enlisted) acting like idiots in the company of their peers, it's about an O-6 CVN XO acting like a junior officer in front of everybody.

What I was reacting to in your post was the notion that you can draw a straight line from the relief of CAPT Honors to a prohibition on swearing and tomfoolery in the ready room. I think that the only real takeaway from all of this is that once you become a senior officer, you need to act like one, at least in public or in the performance of your official duties.

 

[The Chief]

... UAVs add a whole different dimension to the discussion ...

Ok, agree, $2 million straight line. Me mindset was NPV. In the past staight line was close enough what with CPI-W based COLA in the annuity mix, but think those adjustments are a thing of the past at least for the 50K and up crowd. I will root around and find a letter written by "Call Me Senator" Boxer and if I find it will post. Interesting tid bit.

UAVs and the "new world order" are big picture retirment wise, yes, but at some point it all becomes real.

 

[helolumpy]

Yet from all accounts, he was an effective leader and continued to be so 4 years after the fact. He didnt comprise shit, it's a term used by senior leadership to justify the decision. His actions didnt fit into the vaccum of leadership 101, of which one cannot stray, ever it seems.

As XO, he is supposed to be the 'keeper of the line' between what is considered acceptable behavior and what is inappropriate, not blur that line.

The Navy took a black-eye with that video and in a world of dwindling budgets and political correctness (whether you agree with it or not, it is a fact of life), the Navy can not afford to have an individual 'exemplify' the Navy in a negative light.

No single person is bigger than the Navy. If you embarrass the Navy, you can expect the Navy to respond harshly to protect itself. No one should ever expect the Navy to go to bat to defend anyone of us. Regardless of what CAPT Honors has done since he made those tapes, Big Navy has decided that his behavior was unacceptable and responded as they would do to any other commanding officer.

Is the Navy covering its own ass by sacrificing an officer on the alter of political correctness, yes. It's happened before and it will almost certainly happen again.

And to say that the tape was only 4 years ago is moot, VADM Stufflebeem was relieved in 2008 for actions that occurred in 1990.

 

[Ducky]

No one should ever expect the Navy to go to bat to defend anyone of us.

And that is absolutely terrible and despicable when you think of the time and sacrifice many have given to this service. Sure they can be replaced, but that does not make it the right decision. The organization is run by actual people so if that is the case it is piss poor leadership and goes against much of what we have been taught in leadership classes. How effective would your department be if they knew you didn't have their back.

The sad reality: Honor, Courage, and Commitment.......Only when convenient to the Navy

 

[Pugs]

And to say that the tape was only 4 years ago is moot, VADM Stufflebeem was relieved in 2008 for actions that occurred in 1990.

I wouldn't equate lying to the IG about a UCMJ violation with this situation.

 

[helolumpy]

I wouldn't equate lying to the IG about a UCMJ violation with this situation.

My tie to VADM Stufflebeem was only to demonstrate that actions that occurred years ago can still come back to haunt you later on.

 

[phrogdriver]

My tie to VADM Stufflebeem was only to demonstrate that actions that occurred years ago can still come back to haunt you later on.

They CAN. Doesn't mean they necessarily SHOULD. If the Navy knows someone did something and tacitly approves it, it shouldn't come around some time later and act all outraged.

That's different than a situation where the authorities didn't know.

 

[bunk22]

Believe me, I get all that. I've been active duty Navy 18 years and thus I certainly don't need to be lectured by helolumpy on the internet how it fucking works. Again, his ability to lead was never compromised but I get why the Navy fired him. That doesn't make it right or better. Unfortunately, it is what it is and it's bullshit. End of fucking story.

As XO, he is supposed to be the 'keeper of the line' between what is considered acceptable behavior and what is inappropriate, not blur that line.

The Navy took a black-eye with that video and in a world of dwindling budgets and political correctness (whether you agree with it or not, it is a fact of life), the Navy can not afford to have an individual 'exemplify' the Navy in a negative light.

No single person is bigger than the Navy. If you embarrass the Navy, you can expect the Navy to respond harshly to protect itself. No one should ever expect the Navy to go to bat to defend anyone of us. Regardless of what CAPT Honors has done since he made those tapes, Big Navy has decided that his behavior was unacceptable and responded as they would do to any other commanding officer.

Is the Navy covering its own ass by sacrificing an officer on the alter of political correctness, yes. It's happened before and it will almost certainly happen again.

And to say that the tape was only 4 years ago is moot, VADM Stufflebeem was relieved in 2008 for actions that occurred in 1990.

 

[Flying Toaster]

Declaration from Captain Honors

http://www.militarytimes.com/static/projects/pages/honors-declaration.pdf

Original thread was closed, but it's nice to hear a firsthand response. Hard not to respect him after reading this.