Disassociated tour for aviators on aircraft carriers/gators

[Max the Mad Russian]

Folks,

Another question: almost every book and article concerning the image of US Naval Aviation contains the noting that the naval aviation world is very competitive in each dimension - from the decklanding scores ("fair", "OK" and so on) and 1v1 training WVR duels to the caliber of the wrist watches or a sportcars in property - the best guy/gal doesn't last long at the top as squadronmates contest him/her on a daily basis. It's clear that childhood doesn't end within military up to retirement but it's still interesting how important this competition is for promotion and earning of all-community respect. Is it mostly about the carrier fighter (or strike fighter) community (and rather for NAs than NFOs) or this is the common thing for helo and VP people as well?

 

[Pags]

If you ain't first you're last.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

If you ain't first you're last.

So you the rotorheads too, ain't no?
Then what is your helo boys most competitive area?

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Hi to all and Happy New Year

Since this is the most alcoholic holiday here in Russia, the question this time is about liquor, too.
I've been told that the only person in USN squadron who possess alcohol legally is the flight surgeon. What kind of alcohol he\she has for medical reasons?
My own experience is that the stuff most useful for naval service is grape brandy. Firstly, if added to hot coffee or tea pot/cap it doesn't support the definite scent of alcohol all room around, like blended whiskey does (let alone bourbon), so nobody will aware you're drinking even being in officers' mess room or ready room. Second, it doesn't scatter the human's attention so seriously like vodka does. Contrary to widespread opinion, vodka is not the most popular beverage in Russian Navy officer corps. Of course, if you fell overboard or ditched the plane alongside a carrier, or ejected and picked up within more than a couple of minutes from the winter Norway Sea (and if you're still alive), a glass of vodka will be the medical choice to return the life in your body. But in any other case a shot of vodka is equal to falling of the hammer on your head - it's rather medicine than a drink (this is Yosef Stalin's phrase, by the way - he personnally almost never drank vodka, preferring local Georgean or Armenian brandy, like Sir Winston Churchill did as well). Third, the brandy is able to do much softer angiectasis than any other drink and so while it warms the body well it is not connected to high risk of the stroke or heart attack. Not sure about British gin and its cocktails, or a rum, but it seems to me that both are too strong to be used in naval service just to relax slightly, remaining within the boundaries to be able to duty.
What about the whiskey, at least the common sorts like JD ("black blood of rock'n'roll"), I see the only advantage of it over brandy - the ableness to normalize the stomach stuff, say when you're eating some unusual for you Oriental food (Taiwanese one for example) there during the port call, it's better to drink good old whiskey simultaneously to prevent the sticking to WC for the next day.
So if the main stuff in the flight doctor's storage is brandy, it's good enough, in my opinion.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Yes people, sometimes we need to drink while on service, due to the nature of the service itself. It is very hard job to survive the Russian naval service and sometimes the good drink is a big help just to be able to bear an idiotic XO's claims. Ah, doesn't matter after all.
A year or so ago I've read the article in Harvard Business Review about what kind of the civilian jobs the retired military officers are tending to find given the branch they served in. For short, the Air Force and Navy guys feel good in the big corporations where all things trapped under SOPs, generally of the same nature that they were compelling (or establishing) while on service. The Army and USMC boys, i.e. mostly infantry people, feel better in the smaller companies where the initiative does mean more than procedures. Thus the question - if that's true, what is the best civillian career for NA/NFO, a communities that once were quite resistant to SOPs as such, NATOPS and alike, believing that namely initiative makes the good naval flier?

 

[squorch2]

Consulting firms seem to fit the bill, at least with work culture.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Consulting firms seem to fit the bill, at least with work culture.

Why so? And what kind of consulting? If the business one, the former NA should know something unique from the business world, which is hardly better than some Ivy grad who spent all his time in business instead of trying to land on the pitching deck for several years. If it is about organisation work (i.e.general leadership or alike), it seems to be the kind of entertainment and the pukes fluent in face-to-face leadership (i.e. some West Point infantry grad) will be more convincing with their experience. Am I wrong?

 

[squorch2]

The culture at my (large) firm is very much like a ready room, with strong personalities, booming voices, jokes, etc. Add in camaraderie and elements of competition, and things get even more similar.

This element of culture fit + diverse background is important, especially when it comes to firms that use "hire for attitude, train for skill" tactics in recruitment.

I've seen the attitude espoused in this short Medium article (https://medium.com/swlh/how-to-hire-34f4ded5f176#.qn7p488sw) repeatedly - it seems to be catching on more and more.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Ok thanks but it seems to be the proper way for either local retail trying to get state's market or, say, machinery tools repairing company as well, not only consulting... I saw here the firm founded by former Air Force air engineer who is CEO at the same time and that firm sells motor oil. Very similar inner relationships to those you noted about your firm. And yet again, is the culture of your helo squadron quite similar to other NA crowd, say strike fighter squadron?

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

People, what about the Annapolis guys in Naval Aviation? Given the annual numbers of Canoe U grads who attend NA/NFO communities (about 40% of all grads) this is most attractive way for them, either in Navy or Marines. How far the relationships between them and ROTC/OCS grads are from those showed in ancient 'The Caine Munity'?

 

[CommodoreMid]

All is well, and if anyone thinks they're better than someone else because of their commissioning source, they're probably a douche. Of course there's good natured shit talking, but no one really cares for the most part.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

All is well, and if anyone thinks they're better than someone else because of their commissioning source, they're probably a douche. Of course there's good natured shit talking, but no one really cares for the most part.

That's good, thank you. Usually such things are beginning to matter when it comes to some interpersonal conflict. Maybe it is not very notable in Naval Aviation world as the personal achievements are depending mostly on the skills available to possess in time just after commissioning - who can fly and lead the flying people better are not the questions of the commissioning source. Possibly the same is fair for the submariners. But in surface world things are slightly different - as the divisional officer eager to earn his/her SWO commission is usually appointed to the ship right after the commissioning without any intermediate stage, it is extremely important who is your divisional Chief and what opinion he or she has about you and your commissioning source as well. Most of experienced NCOs in surface community, as far as I understand, are sarcastic about Canoe U grads due to their Annapolis "most advanced leadership training". It is important as I repeatedly find that in the United States Navy it is the Div Chief who either makes or breakes the career of the fresh Ensign. So the question is - is there the divisional Chief in typical division of the squadron and what is his/her main role? AFAIK, since he or she is not flier, he or she cannot be so influential on the NA/NFO's career as he or she is in the surface warfare world. On the other hand, typical Marine officer advice ("If you don't know what to do, whatever - Just ask your Gunny"), as I know, is still relevant in Marine aviation field, at least in their helo community... What kind of support the Marine Gunnery Sergeant as enlisted aviation specialist can provide for the officer Naval Aviator, then?

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Gentlemen,

Here it comes my new opinion as a non-aviator's one: a single-seat airplane is essentially the fully remote-controlled complex. Being on New Year vacations in Poland and Slovakia for skiing (hard times due to the lack of natural snow, but enough of created snow so that it is not a problem to provide the Winter Olympics in, say, Africa if one has the money to buy the snow-creating and snow-maintaining equipment and enough water), I had visited the Polish Aviation Museum in Krakow City and found there the former RAF Hawker Siddeley Harrier GR.3 with removed Pegasus engine. This is the pictures of the plane from outside (first) and of the engine bay made through the aft port rotatable nozzle's well (second). One can see the huge intake from behind and inside and very narrow end of cockpit's pile, which breaks intake by the centerline. It shows for everyone how strikingly small space is occupied by the cockpit in the overall aircraft and that the aircraft itself is a remote-controlled machine to far greater degree than any other military equipment. News for me, at least visually.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Gents,

Historically, the fathers of US Naval Aviations all were the black-shoe big-gun guys, everyone of which had commanded a battleship once in his career. Moffett, Laning, Reeves and so on. And they firstly saw the aircraft as a means to improve the BBs' gunnery accuracy by spotting from the air (FAC(A) in modern parlance). Watching the recent firings of BGM-109 from a destroyer that was giuded by F/A-18F's WSO to surface target (

), which is step behind in the sea-skimmers' development, I've remembered that old intentions and at least to some degree I figured out what the crewed F-model can do that single-placed E cannot. What else twin-placed Super can do or can do better?

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

By the way, trying to find any events in general naval history (fairly for XX century), where any naval aviator by trade, reaching the high/or and flag rank, was good enough in common naval matters or in those far enough from the air war or leading/managing the carrier task forces. Well, just to convince myself that the naval aviation in general is not the one-way ticket in naval affairs. Yet have found three persons:
1. Dutch Navy Rear Admiral Karel Doorman, a seaplane naval aviator by trade, lost the surface action, Battle of the Java Sea, being CinC of unified ABDA cruiser-destroyer task force at Feb 1942. Fail;
2. USN Admiral James Smith "Jimmy" Thatch, a seaplane and fighter plane pilot by trade and WWII ace, became very good in ASW at 1959-60, designing very good antisub approach for Atlantic Fleet, what had been employed during the Cuban Missile Crisis to great USN success against the Soviet diesel subs. Win;
3. German Navy Captain Reinhard Hardegen, who is still alive (age 102), a seaplane pilot by initial trade, switched to submarine service after the air crash and medical ban from flying, is one of the top submarine aces of WWII with more than 110.000 GRT sunk. While his main success was achieved well before the promotin to Captain, the case is relevant enough to show how the flier can succeed in the other field. Win.
But what about nowadays? Are there the former NA/NFOs famous by naval activity in the fields other than naval aviation?