Enlisted get a shot at a seat in the cockpit

[TheBubba]

SOB,

He's not saying it takes a PHD in anything to fly a helo. What OH-58 is saying is that he a little ticked off cuz he signed up to be a pilot and as such, he expected to be doing a considerable amount of flying. Yet through the Army's system, he's not getting to fly. Instead, they gave him wings and stuck him behind a desk.

OH, good luck with the transfer.

 

[S.O.B.]

SOB,

He's not saying it takes a PHD in anything to fly a helo. What OH-58 is saying is that he a little ticked off cuz he signed up to be a pilot and as such, he expected to be doing a considerable amount of flying. Yet through the Army's system, he's not getting to fly. Instead, they gave him wings and stuck him behind a desk.

OH, good luck with the transfer.

Bubba,
I don't think any Navy pilot thought that some day he would be manning a desk for an Army guy, but that's happening; thanks to the IA tours that have been discussed on other threads. My point is that if OH-58 looked into the program that he was signing on for he would have realized that this would ultimately have very little to do with flying. Hell even I know that and have never even considered joining the Army. OH-58’s problem could have been alleviated had he done just a little research.

 

[Stearmann4]

S.O.B.,

First off, having seen both the inner workings of the Navy and Army, no where in the idealistic, recruiiting process from West Point, ROTC, or OCS does it let perspective commissioned aviators know that they will receive their minimums before being shuffled off to a staff billet. Hence, unless you have the "inside track" before selecting, you're led to believe that you will fly every bit as much as the warrants until you're promoted to a rank where you can't maintain career progression and cockpit profficiency at the same time.

Also, 58Driver is right on in stating that the addition of warrants in the wardroom (regardless of how great a deal it is for the selected enlisted Sailors), is again splitting an already coveted allottment of flight hours. If you were a C.O. and you had to assign someone to a RAG billet, etc and another to man a "career enhancing billet", what would you do? To that end, the CWO program presents an easy fix for the brass.

I'm probably just reiterating facts you've long since pondered and discarded...given your experiences.

 

[eddie]

Ok, I just re-read this thread to make sure I wasn't being SUPER redundant, and maybe these are questions for another thread.

1. What is the functional (as in not tradition) reason to require a degree for officers (I'm thinking in terms of all communities, not just aviation)?

2. Can anyone think of a "perfect" system with both commissioned and enlisted/warrant pilots, given real-world constraints?

P.S. If you don't screen for DH or command, what exactly happens to you (direct me to a thread... I can't find one)?

 

[eddie]

Worry about making Ensign first.

That is not the reason for my curiosity at all. I'm interested in how the larger picture works, not gaming the system. The purpose of the warrant officer flight program is to make it easier for a JO to make DH. I'm just trying to better understand the problem, and in doing so, better understand this proposed solution.

 

[zippy]

Worry about making Ensign first.

I'm an ensign, so I guess I can ask the questions :icon_roll

What happens to people who don't screen for department head?

What happens to people who make department head but don't screen for command?

In these cases, do these individuals have options to continue in their community and/or finish out a career?

hopefully this will help get anwsers to those who are curios.

 

[S.O.B.]

S.O.B.,

First off, having seen both the inner workings of the Navy and Army, no where in the idealistic, recruiiting process from West Point, ROTC, or OCS does it let perspective commissioned aviators know that they will receive their minimums before being shuffled off to a staff billet.

Is this something new in the Army? If not then shame on you for not doing the research. If you trusted a recruiter, then you made a mistake.

 

[Brett327]

I'm an ensign, so I guess I can ask the questions :icon_roll

What happens to people who don't screen for department head?

What happens to people who make department head but don't screen for command?

In these cases, do these individuals have options to continue in their community and/or finish out a career?

hopefully this will help get answers to those who are curios.

This is really more of a VP phenomenon, so I'll defer to those guys for their community experience, but failure to screen for DH pretty much means that you're through in your community. There may be a few limited odd flying billets available, but I would imagine that you would have to redesignate, or get out, depending on how much time you have in. There are guys who fail to make MC in their first tour who are functionally in the same boat. The people I know that are in that situation have all redesignated or gotten out.

Brett

 

[S.O.B.]

Helo guys were failing to select 04 in the early to mid 90s. If you were augmented it meant a large severance; not a bad deal if you wanted out. I remember Officers leaving pictures out of their service records so they wouldn’t select. Like Brett was saying I think the only communities affected now are P3 guys and Prowlers NFOs.

 

[Brett327]

Helo guys were failing to select 04 in the early to mid 90s. If you were augmented it meant a large severance; not a bad deal if you wanted out. I remember Officers leaving pictures out of their service records so they wouldn’t select. Like Brett was saying I think the only communities affected now are P3 guys and Prowlers NFOs.

I think you mean VP and HSX. Prowlers (pilots and NFOs) have about a 95% screen rate for DH.

Brett

 

[S.O.B.]

Gotcha

 

[Coota0]

1. What is the functional (as in not tradition) reason to require a degree for officers (I'm thinking in terms of all communities, not just aviation)?

I don't know, but I can tell you the two things I've been told. You need a degree to show that you can stick with something for the long-term or you need a degree to put all the officers on the same basic level (referred to your basic courses) if the latter is true I always wondered why the military didn't look to recruit students that were done with their first 60 hours for officers. That's what I was told when I asked.

 

[auquaman]

Hi,
Does anyone have any tips on how to properly address an age waiver on the CO recommendation?

 

[Stearmann4]

Augua,

I don't remember in the message (the first post in this thread) whether it stated that age waivers would be accepted or not. I'd try to contact the POC listed in the message first to find out how, and in what format an age waiver should be sought.

 

[The Stinkster]

Guess I will take a crack at the P-3 side of the house if no-one else will. Failure to screen for DH takes you down a very interesting path. Your are up for your EOS by the end of your shore tour (normally), so you take the bonus and stay in. This obligates you to five years of service from your EOS regardless. You will have your screen for DH about a year after you get to your boat. If you fail to screen at that point a number of things happen.
1) You still have another look at an AZ screen
2) They stop paying your bonus immediately at that point. If you have been getting them a year in advance you may be required to pay the "unearned portion" back depending on schedule. Oh yeah, they will not give you lump sum op front any more since there is no guarentee if you will screen.
3) Failure to screen means redes or die. There are no in community billets left for you and there are CURRENTLY no flying billets either. These two combined mean that you will A) never fly again B) not retire as an O-4 if you don't redes into something like AEDO, intel, supply, PAO, etcc) still owe four years min of non-bonus service as a result of the provisions of your contract.

They are looking at ways to make this less painful if you don't screen, but this is the current state of afairs. If you want to see what the screen rates are over the community and by each shore assignment, I know that has been posted somewhere on here before. As I posted earlier, the reduction in the number of pilots per squadron should have helped this and there is some hope that in a couple of years the screen will go away, but for now this is the way that it is. The best bet is to make sure that leading up to the screen you have all the necessary/optimal tickets punched.