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Europe under extreme duress

Hotdogs

Hotdogs

I don’t care if I hurt your feelings
pilot
jarhead said:
My opinion, the F-16s would matter very little in Ukraine and they probably won't last very long without the support platforms that make NATOs airwar as lethal as it is.
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Ukraine both leaves me in awe and complete befuddlement on their execution of warfare. Good contrast is the sinking of the Moskva… and then watching them conduct daytime loft deliveries of unguided rockets. ?‍♂️

Sometimes maybe Russian, sometime maybe not.

 
R

Random8145

Registered User
Contributor
Here is a detailed article on the difficulties of getting F-16s to Ukraine: LINK

Also I just learned that there are now contractor air force companies that you apparently can hire to help protect your country.
 
nittany03

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Hotdogs said:
Ukraine both leaves me in awe and complete befuddlement on their execution of warfare. Good contrast is the sinking of the Moskva… and then watching them conduct daytime loft deliveries of unguided rockets. ?‍♂️

Sometimes maybe Russian, sometime maybe not.
Click to expand...
There's been a lot of reporting in the open-source on the generation gap in the Ukrainian military. A lot of senior leadership is apparently still stuck in old Soviet ways of thinking and acting, but then you have the JOs and O-4 through maybe O-6 ranks who cut their teeth post-2014 fighting in the Donbas and who've maybe had some NATO training.

Compare that to us. We draw from 40+ years of TTPs that have been tested and refined in Gulf War I and OIF along with countless LFEs in places like Nellis, Fallon, Fort Irwin, the San Diego and VACAPES OPAREAs, and so on. Tactically, every qualified late-tour JO, DH, and front office is standing on the shoulders of giants. The Ukrainians are having to learn on the job and make that sort of stuff up on the fly.
 
BigRed389

BigRed389

Registered User
None
Flash said:
Russia really hyped up the Kinzahl along with a few others but in reality it is not much more than an SS-26 modified to be fired by MiG-31's, so while a capable system it is by no means the wunderwaffe 'wonder weapon' that Putin hyped it to be.

As for the Patriot, it is a capable system that has improved considerably over the years but like any weapon system it has its goods and bads and can't shoot 'anything out there', that is why we also have systems like THAAD and GBI's. He hit the nail on the head about numbers though, quantity certainly does have a quality all its own.
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Thats the risk of any kind of new hotness in general - poorly understood and often ill defined. Kinzhal hits the Mach number sure, but so does every other ballistic missile since…the 50’s? It’s not a scramjet or HGV that can make major changes to its trajectory. And everything that hits hypersonic in upper atmo will slow down massively as it re-enters and approaches surface impact.

High altitude high supersonics have been a thing we’ve designed to successfully defend against since at least the Kh22/AS4 was a thing.

Patriot is good, but like every other good SAM (or high end guided munition) we’ve got, the issues are in capacity/inventory.
 
nittany03

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Reading Twitter and Reddit is entertaining AF right now when you realize the only people who probably have the slightest clue what’s going on are people who have access to JWICS or their country’s equivalent. And who aren’t posting on Twitter or Reddit.
 
R

Random8145

Registered User
Contributor
I'm surprised Putin hasn't offed Prigozhin. Usually it seems people highly critical of him mysteriously fall off of buildings or get hit by a truck or something.
 
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