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Europe under extreme duress

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Interesting perspective. The vast majority of allied Navies refer to STOVL variant ships as aircraft carriers. We obviously make a distinction. Do you think AICs are going to be controlling the next fight at the distances required in the Pacific? What is your opinion on what makes a maritime strike capability?

At the distances the air wing will fight? Certainly. Without organic AEW any flavor of carrier with fixed-wing aircraft is going to be at a serious disadvantage in a conflict.
 

WhiskeySierra6

Well-Known Member
pilot
At the distances the air wing will fight? Certainly. Without organic AEW any flavor of carrier with fixed-wing aircraft is going to be at a serious disadvantage in a conflict.
I think this image adequately communicates the limitations of the STOVL variant. TL : DR The Bravo goes shorter with less stuff compared to the Alpha and Charlie. This is true in Europe too (to bring us back to topic). f-35-variants-does-b-stand-for-budget-is-it-simply-a-lower-v0-vknw6uq7w0w91.jpg
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
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WhiskeySierra6

Well-Known Member
pilot
The Brits do have organic AEW now in their carrier air complement. It’s the AW101/Merlin HC-4 with Crowsnest. And the French have flown the E-2C Hawkeye on their CVN (the CDG) since 1998 or so.

Russia ostensibly has maritime AEW capability in the Ka-31 Helix, but who knows how degraded that capability is today, or whether they actually use it for C2 or merely a big dumb flying radar.
I haven't seen an EM diagram between an HC-4 and an E-2C/D but I'd gather the E-2 has it beat in altitude(important for radar horizon) and range (important for...everything blue water). E-2 also has one more controller in the back. Again, I know it sounds a lot like nit picking but all these limitations add up or require significant other resource investments to mitigate.

French carrier is CATOBAR (and soon EMALS) which has none of the issues that STOVL-only carriers have. We haven't even touched on organic tanking yet.

Edit: Remove Russia completely from the conversation on principle. You can add them back in when we start talking about Botswna's organic maritime power projection capabilities.
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Kaga was an interesting choice of name. If the next one is Akagi.............time to beef up the air defenses at Pearl.
It’s a name of a former province, like the other three operational JMSDF “helicopter destroyers.”

Interestingly, the predecessors of all four were sunk by American carrier aircraft during WWII.
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I haven't seen an EM diagram between an HC-4 and an E-2C/D but I'd gather the E-2 has it beat in altitude(important for radar horizon) and range (important for...everything blue water). E-2 also has one more controller in the back. Again, I know it sounds a lot like nit picking but all these limitations add up or require significant other resource investments to mitigate.

French carrier is CATOBAR (and soon EMALS) which has none of the issues that STOVL-only carriers have. We haven't even touched on organic tanking yet.

Edit: Remove Russia completely from the conversation on principle. You can add them back in when we start talking about Botswna's organic maritime power projection capabilities.
Concur with all. Rotary wing AEW < fixed wing AEWC/AWACS.

Also, Russia is for sure out of the conversation, but still tracking the Ka-31 as it’s been exported to some other navies.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I think this image adequately communicates the limitations of the STOVL variant. TL : DR The Bravo goes shorter with less stuff compared to the Alpha and Charlie. This is true in Europe too (to bring us back to topic). View attachment 40432

Even with the shorter legs to have a viable carrier air wing with an independent blue water capability, organic AEW is pretty much a 'must have'.

The Brits do have organic AEW now in their carrier air complement. It’s the AW101/Merlin HC-4 with Crowsnest.

The RN has had organic AEW capability since the summer of 1982, when they bolted Searchwater radars on Sea Kings in the wake of the Falklands War. The Searchwater was originally a surface search radar used on Nimrods and modified to be an AEW radar, I'm pretty sure the Crowsnest radar is just an updated version of Searchwater and has had issues.

Also, Russia is for sure out of the conversation, but still tracking the Ka-31 as it’s been exported to some other navies.

India and China both have carrier-capable helicopter-borne AEW capability, just how operational they are I don't know.

PLANAF_Changhe_Z-18J_AEW.png
 
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Random8145

Registered User
Contributor
LINK - U.S. and German authorities foil a Russian plot to kill the CEO of Germany's Rheinmetall, the biggest German arms manufacturer and major producer of the 155 mm shells crucial to Ukraine in fighting Russia. Apparently the Russians have targeted other defense industry executives as well.
 

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
LINK - U.S. and German authorities foil a Russian plot to kill the CEO of Germany's Rheinmetall, the biggest German arms manufacturer and major producer of the 155 mm shells crucial to Ukraine in fighting Russia. Apparently the Russians have targeted other defense industry executives as well.

I wonder if we are doing the same, with "CEOs" of russian companies? :)
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I wonder if we are doing the same, with "CEOs" of russian companies? :)
Hopefully, we're going ham on all these fuckers...physically and financially. The saber-rattling from Putin wears thin...IMO, we should call his bluff, and fully arm UKR to a further extent.

If it weren't for the fact they have a lot of nukes Polamd and the Baltics would already be in Moscow...but that's the game nevertheless...all their wealth and mistresses live/reside in Western Europe, so it's a built in hedge...MAD.
 
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ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Recommend "Flat Circle History" on Tubes of You and the WW3 "novella" series. A short form, episodic video series in a Tom Clancy style. The author is a one man show - and his grasp of technical an geopolitical details are quite good - and entertaining! A number of retired mil folks have served as technical advisors - an example being a Marine 53 pilot in the latest episode. The author posts a new episode every few weeks.

I'm interested in what you all think.

 
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