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Europe under extreme duress
- Thread starter Randy Daytona
- Start date
Wrong leader - that would be Prime Minister Orban of Hungary. Merkel is all about open borders and unlimited immigration.
That is about as simplistic as those claiming the same.
I have no earthly idea what the hell you are talking about. You simply stating the obvious, that the whole ISIS, Islamic terror thing is multifaceted? Well no shit. Don't be a troll. I hope you take the time to be more clear. I will do the same.
In the context of increasing terror attacks on countries and innocent civilians the world over, it is perfectly clear that the sort of terrorists we are dealing with are not motivated by a handful of terrorists held in better conditions at Gitmo then most of their "free" compatriots experience today. The list of terror attack targets does not correlate to the foreign policy of or military actions of the targets of the attacks. Nor does America's treatment of Muslims inspire terror attacks of even the home grown lone wolf type.
ISIS and Al Qaeda have specific goals, not the least of which is a caliphate, but can also be a pedestrian as poppy and oil profits. To achieve those goals they will use terror tactics wherever it has the greatest affect and wherever it is easiest to pull off the attack. If a country that is not particularly friendly to Israel, is open to Muslim immigration or is a majority Muslim country, is not bellicose, and even in the past has not been critical to Islamic jihad, but just happens to present a perfect target for their purposes, they will be attacked.
Our terrorist enemies do not attack us because of anything other then the achievement of their own goals, which has nearly nothing to do with where we have based troops in the past, what we blew up last year, what we do with captured enemy combatants, and how friendly we are with Israel. Flip any one of those postions and is there any question we would still be their enemy and a prime trtaget of terror? Of course not. And it is proven by the breath of international interests and cultures of the countries attacked over the last decade.
KORhc
Well-Known Member
Well said
All the factors you mentioned are to varying degrees among many of the motivations of the myriad of terror groups we have been attacked by over the years to today. Our presence on Saudi soil, support of Israel, despotic Middle East regimes and even our detention of folks at Gitmo all feed into many terror organizations motivations to varying degrees. Nowadays they usually don't provide the primary motivation for many terror groups and their supporters but it doesn't mean it doesn't still fit into their motivation. ISIS and Al Qaeda have evolved from their initial, more specific goals and motivations to basically wanting to see the rest of the world burn, to borrow from Mr. Caine. But to say that the things you listed don't provide some motivation to terrorist groups worldwide is as simplistic as a 'War on Terror' or claiming they have nothing to do with today's terrorism, which apparently you understand to a degree but went with the simplistic post.
Respectfully, and I really do mean that, bull crap. I do understand this issue to a better degree then you give me credit. With the possible exception of support for Israel, not a single one of those issues were serious motivation. They were excuses to pursue other goals. The grand daddy of terror attacks, 9/11 was supposed to be largely because of us troops on Saudi soil. Horse crap. We were out of Saudi long before that attack. Israel? Too many Muslim countries not friendly with Israel have been attacked. Gitmo, give me a break. They expect to be tortured and martyred when captured. I could go on and on. I'll just end by pointing out that I clarified my original post by mentioning the context of the increasing number of attacks on other countries in the last few years. And my original post, inspired by the attacks in Brussels, began with "Now". Yet you qualify your lecture with
So, are we not understanding each other after all? Have you not admitted that even if any of those convenient excuses for asymmetric attacks were true once, they are not now and that is the context to which I was speaking?
It was a simple statement because it was warranted given the context and qualifiers. I really wish you would be just a little slower to lecture and read the post more carefully. Maybe your learned comments would be better posted as amplifying remarks as opposed to lecture following insult. I know I prefer to read your posts when it does not come off as a lecture. Additionally, while much world conflict and policy is complex, layered, nuanced, etc. That doesn't mean the solutions, let alone intermediate observations, have to be equally complex. Some very complicated things do have simple solutions. In fact, it is the very nature of diplomacy and negotiations to reduce a problem into a series of simple solutions agreeable to all parties that move in the direction to a grander and more lasting solution. This horse crap that everything is so complicated that only the brainiacs in places like DC, Brussels, and Turtle Bay can solve them with adequately complex solutions is nonsense. You know, sometimes intractable problems do not fail to be solved because of a lack of understanding the complexity of the problem or wanting for an adequately complex solution, but because one party or the other just does not want a solution. IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT!
My simplistic response was to your very simplistic claim about a very complex problem. In your subsequent posts you make it clear you know it is complex but you lose me a bit. Simple solution? Are you talking about terrorism?
Leave the sloganeering for the politicians, you almost sounded like Trump! Sorry, couldn't resist.....
I'm probably giving him too much credit to know that much anyways.
Really?! That would be a bit of a surprise to me, my squadron-mates, and a couple thousand other folks who flew out of PSAB for OIF in '03. Details...
Leave the sloganeering for the politicians, you almost sounded like Trump! Sorry, couldn't resist.....
I'm probably giving him too much credit to know that much anyways.Really?! That would be a bit of a surprise to me, my squadron-mates, and a couple thousand other folks who flew out of PSAB for OIF in '03. Details...
Darn if I didn't feel like I was starting to channel Trump. Save me!!!!
My reference to simple solutions was not regarding terrorism. Read my post again. It was a general lament that all solutions must be complex plans emanating from certain seats of power and only to be understood and implemented by occupants of said seats of power. I don't believe that has to be the case. In fact, there is a large element of self serving job security in the approach.
The 9/11 attacks were in 2001. Bin Laden bitched about Desert Storm troops and always referenced some sort of Koranic prohibition of infidels in Saudi Arabia on a permanent basis. Hell, ARAMCO employees were more permanent then any western troops. He referred to it an occupation. Clearly it wasn't. Again, just an excuse. Again, that was then. I am talking now. Rarely a demonstrated link.
My reference to simple solutions was not regarding terrorism. Read my post again. It was a general lament that all solutions must be complex plans emanating from certain seats of power and only to be understood and implemented by occupants of said seats of power. I don't believe that has to be the case. In fact, there is a large element of self serving job security in the approach.
The 9/11 attacks were in 2001. Bin Laden bitched about Desert Storm troops and always referenced some sort of Koranic prohibition of infidels in Saudi Arabia on a permanent basis. Hell, ARAMCO employees were more permanent then any western troops. He referred to it an occupation. Clearly it wasn't. Again, just an excuse. Again, that was then. I am talking now. Rarely a demonstrated link.
Wink, we had significant numbers of troops in Saudi from Desert Storm all the way up to before OIF when they moved out of PSAB. The US military had a huge footprint in Saudi at PSAB and ESKAN in Riyadh. The bulk of Southern Watch from the late 1990s through OIF was flown by a USAF Air Expeditionary Force augmented by Navy Prowlers out of PSAB. Just a few data points for your world-view.
Noted. Does not change the fact that Islamic terrorists will find any excuse to attack western interests. Which was my point. This is more true now then ever. Just last night I had a conversation with my 20 year old son about terrorism. I found myself almost nostalgic for old time terrorism when explaining Achilli Lauro. Today terrorists would have roamed the ship killing indiscriminately, setting it afire and blowing a whole in the side of the ship.
The UK votes on whether or not to leave the EU this June. British PM was one of those people caught up in the Panama Papers - his father had an offshore account. As Cameron is leading the charge to stay in the EU, this revelation will leave a mark. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...e-most-are-within-his-own-party-a6975106.html
Now Austria goes hard right...
http://www.dw.com/en/inside-europe-a-political-earthquake-shakes-austria/av-19222274
Inside Europe: A political earthquake shakes Austria
http://www.dw.com/en/inside-europe-a-political-earthquake-shakes-austria/av-19222274
Inside Europe: A political earthquake shakes Austria
"Now" is kind of misleading. Their political needle has been moving further and further in that direction for several years.