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Europe under extreme duress

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
That was my first reaction. The more I hear about this operation, the more “holy shit” it seems. Covert, coordinated drone strikes as far apart as Finland and Mongolia, against strategic targets. Decision makers need to be paying attention.

The US equivalent would be a coordinated Chinese strike against Elmendorf, JBLM, and Barksdale and killing about 56 B-52s, B-1s, and B-2s.

EDIT: With at least a few KC-135s and AWACS also for good measure. The Russians got got.
Might want to buy some stock in concrete firms. Wonder how many reinforced hangars are going to be built? Who knows, maybe even submarine pens?
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Given the way MILCON works, and how much it costs, I think there's very little chance that we're going to build HAS for our CONUS aircraft... perhaps some novelty amount overseas though.
 

NoMoreMrNiceGuy

Well-Known Member
None
That was my first reaction. The more I hear about this operation, the more “holy shit” it seems. Covert, coordinated drone strikes as far apart as Finland and Mongolia, against strategic targets. Decision makers need to be paying attention.

The US equivalent would be a coordinated Chinese strike against Elmendorf, JBLM, and Barksdale and killing about 56 B-52s, B-1s, and B-2s. EDIT: With at least a few KC-135s and AWACS also for good measure.

The Russians got got.
1748833226895.gif
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
Given the way MILCON works, and how much it costs, I think there's very little chance that we're going to build HAS for our CONUS aircraft... perhaps some novelty amount overseas though.
That’s one of the things I actually support about this Administration, as far as burning down all our stupider bureaucratic bullshit.

I haven’t played much in MILCON $ but it is absurd how much I hear that as an excuse for why we can’t do something. If we’re not able to do put up something as basic as a HAS structure up economically (more than Red threats) at least for our bases directly in the WEZ, we deserve to lose.
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
That was my first reaction. The more I hear about this operation, the more “holy shit” it seems. Covert, coordinated drone strikes as far apart as Finland and Mongolia, against strategic targets. Decision makers need to be paying attention.

The US equivalent would be a coordinated Chinese strike against Elmendorf, JBLM, and Barksdale and killing about 56 B-52s, B-1s, and B-2s. EDIT: With at least a few KC-135s and AWACS also for good measure.

The Russians got got.
I'd be curious to know that with them taking out ~1/3 of their strategic bomber airframes...what's the PMC/FMC rate of their remaining fleet? I'm assuming they missed all the hangar queens.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
The conservative candidate, Mr Narwocki, won the Polish presidential election last night in a razor close election: 50.9 to 49.1. It is a 5 year term, largely ceremonial, but it does allow to veto legislation. This veto power may be enough to cause a no confidence vote in the current administration earlier than the next election in 2027.

 

FinkUFreaky

Well-Known Member
pilot
Genuinely curious, where and why are you getting your Victoria Nuland/CIA/2014 info from? Post some links.
You're giving off the crazy uncle at Thanksgiving dinner vibes that no one takes seriously anymore.
I’ll throw out there that what rob is talking about is being talked about, in “conspiracy theory” circles. I put that in quotations because just a couple years ago it was a “conspiracy theory” to state that Covid might have originated in a lab near wuhan and that we might have funded it through USAID. My point being that “conspiracy theorist” is a label meant to silence speech, much as “racist” or “transphobe” or “antisemite” (the new speech suppression tool of the right, following along nicely with what I used to correlate as a leftist tendency). Please don’t take the facts above as me saying I like racists or anti-semites; I’m saying the labels are used inaccurately to shape public opinion about the speaker.

Mike Benz is a guy I’ve seen talk about this. Google “Mike Benz”. Of course he dared to have a conversation with notable conspiracy theorists Joe Rogan and even Tucker I believe, so it’s an easy answer to just not listen to the information you don’t want to hear. He talked about the USAID/CIA connection well before news came out that they were “funding” a $20 million Iraqi Sesame Street (LOL).

Basically the gist is that we may have had something to do with ukraines “revolution” circa 2014. If true, it paints the conflict in a very different light. I’m pretty sure most Americans would have no problem with us invading Mexico if china or Russia had instigated a revolution there, installed their puppets, and were openly talking about putting nukes in there.

If course, this could all be “Russian disinformation”. Except our “intelligence” lost my trust at least, and I’m sure that of many other Americans, when they also called hunters laptop the same. At some point we stop listening to the calls of “wolf wolf wolf”!!!

Some of you may believe that we are safer at home because we interfere so much in foreign governments. Fair take. Others will notice the blatant hypocrisy in interfering with foreign elections while complaining about others doing it to us.
 

Hotdogs

I don’t care if I hurt your feelings
pilot
I’ll throw out there that what rob is talking about is being talked about, in “conspiracy theory” circles. I put that in quotations because just a couple years ago it was a “conspiracy theory” to state that Covid might have originated in a lab near wuhan and that we might have funded it through USAID. My point being that “conspiracy theorist” is a label meant to silence speech, much as “racist” or “transphobe” or “antisemite” (the new speech suppression tool of the right, following along nicely with what I used to correlate as a leftist tendency). Please don’t take the facts above as me saying I like racists or anti-semites; I’m saying the labels are used inaccurately to shape public opinion about the speaker.

Mike Benz is a guy I’ve seen talk about this. Google “Mike Benz”. Of course he dared to have a conversation with notable conspiracy theorists Joe Rogan and even Tucker I believe, so it’s an easy answer to just not listen to the information you don’t want to hear. He talked about the USAID/CIA connection well before news came out that they were “funding” a $20 million Iraqi Sesame Street (LOL).

Basically the gist is that we may have had something to do with ukraines “revolution” circa 2014. If true, it paints the conflict in a very different light. I’m pretty sure most Americans would have no problem with us invading Mexico if china or Russia had instigated a revolution there, installed their puppets, and were openly talking about putting nukes in there.

If course, this could all be “Russian disinformation”. Except our “intelligence” lost my trust at least, and I’m sure that of many other Americans, when they also called hunters laptop the same. At some point we stop listening to the calls of “wolf wolf wolf”!!!

Some of you may believe that we are safer at home because we interfere so much in foreign governments. Fair take. Others will notice the blatant hypocrisy in interfering with foreign elections while complaining about others doing it to us.

*sighs*

We are discussing well documented practices the US government has done in conjunction with allies for decades. Secondly, there is a distinct difference between developing a strong central democratically elected government with reputable institutions vs sponsoring a insurgent-led coup to overthrow a foreign government. It is quite literally spelled out in certain Title 50 arrangements that specifies what the US military and intelligence agencies are allowed to do by law. Directly running "interference" is not one of them. They also have congressional oversight, in which certain politically aligned congressmen would have access to this information. If this conspiracy theory were even remotely true, then how come the current CIA director hasn't release information that detailed such an operation authorized by previous admins?

Further, conspiracy theories are fine for party tricks and dinner time stories, but when we're talking about directing US foreign policy - that is another level that has to meet certain creditability and plausibility criteria that exceed the threshold of more likely than not. I'm sorry but Mike Benz and Joe Rogan's material don't cut it. Neither do most journalists these days. The vast majority of people who work at our intelligence agencies and various government departments - are people just like you and I - Serving their country and doing their jobs. Most of which them are doing regardless of their political beliefs. The apolitical nature of the DoD (while stronger than other departments) is not unique amongst government agencies.

Thirdly, there are numerous whistle blower functions inside all our intelligence agencies that allow for vindicating impropriety amongst government officials and administrations. We have had 3 separate administrations, multiple changes in congressional majorities, and yet not one congressmen or elected official has fronted a whistle blower about the US purposely overthrowing or interfering in a foreign government. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Lastly, the USAID was set up as a separate organization from DoS for good reason. It was to give the USG a level of plausible deniability in directly influencing the decisions (I.e. forcibly) of another government in a quid pro quo manner for foreign aid or support. While I'm sure some functions of the USAID were wasteful, the vast majority of them were not, and damage was done to US credibility because of it.

Some of you need to go back and study US Government and take a class in foreign policy/relations. This is basic JPME level information about inter-agency relations and coordination. When a person clearly doesn't understand US Foreign policy (or US Title obligations) or overtly highlights niche information without credible evidence or reporting - then I'm inclined to think they're the batshit crazy uncle at thanksgiving dinner.
 
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Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
That carte blanche policy doesn’t take into account Russia’s redlines, international norms, or the risk of uncontrolled escalation for a country which you point out is an existential threat.

I am not advocating a 'carte blanche' policy or a blank check, but full support for Ukraine's continued fight to survive. And Ukraine has been pretty careful not to go too far when it comes to striking Russia, like not hitting nuclear weapons sites for example.

I'm still waiting for an accounting and audit of all the U.S. dollars we have sent Volodymyr Zelenskyy. If Vladimir Putin is, in your estimation, such an existential threat, why isn't ALL of Europe and the rest of the free world crying foul and putting their skin in the game?

The vast majority of what we have sent them is publicly available, and most of what we sent them has been material and not something you can launder in Nicosia. The money sent is also tracked and accounted for pretty closely, making it very hard to divert or steal. Of note, almost every widely publicized instance of 'corruption' with respect to the Ukrainian government or officials has turned out to be total bullshit and is likely laundered Russian propaganda.

I go back to Victoria Nuland, the CIA and all that occurred back in 2014.
Again, please let me know your superior analysis of 2014, Victoria Nuland, the CIA, and everything that transpired after, wrt Russia.

May Russia and her fellow travelers continue to tremble in fear of the Mighty and All Powerful Nuland!

960px-Victoria_Nuland_2021.jpg


My point being that “conspiracy theorist” is a label meant to silence speech, much as “racist” or “transphobe” or “antisemite” (the new speech suppression tool of the right, following along nicely with what I used to correlate as a leftist tendency).

Of course it is also used to point out folks who think some people have been replaced by a robot clones or that chemtrails are actually a real thing, not exactly 'speech suppression' but more pointing out obvious stupidity in certain beliefs.

Mike Benz is a guy I’ve seen talk about this. Google “Mike Benz”. Of course he dared to have a conversation with notable conspiracy theorists Joe Rogan and even Tucker I believe, so it’s an easy answer to just not listen to the information you don’t want to hear. He talked about the USAID/CIA connection well before news came out that they were “funding” a $20 million Iraqi Sesame Street (LOL).

Basically the gist is that we may have had something to do with ukraines “revolution” circa 2014. If true, it paints the conflict in a very different light. I’m pretty sure most Americans would have no problem with us invading Mexico if china or Russia had instigated a revolution there, installed their puppets, and were openly talking about putting nukes in there.

Ah yes, another random online truth seeker striving to make the internet more free by talking to folks who have been 'silenced' by The Man like....Tucker and Rogan? Okay then.

And shocker, he is going with the old 'A people wanting to be free from a more powerful country that used to occupy them couldn't possibly get together as an people to overthrow their oppressors on their own volition'. I mean that has never happened, in the history of mankind, like ever. And in those rare instances it has happened, they didn't much in the way of outside help...at all.

Marie-Joseph Paul Yves Roch Gilbert du Motier de la Fayette, Marquis de la Fayette send his regards by the way.

Gilbert_du_Motier_Marquis_de_Lafayette-745x1024.png
 
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Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Basically the gist is that we may have had something to do with ukraines “revolution” circa 2014. If true, it paints the conflict in a very different light. I’m pretty sure most Americans would have no problem with us invading Mexico if china or Russia had instigated a revolution there, installed their puppets, and were openly talking about putting nukes in there.
You’re really trying here, aren’t you. Your analogy is absurd.
 
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