Falling Leaf HUD footage

[A4sForever]

Or... mando eject in the -18 is 6K.......

There you go ... mystery solved.

 

[Tom]

Ok, what is a "Falling Leaf", and how does it work?

HELL NO I am not wanting to do one in the T-34. Just out of curiosity.

Anyone with wings feel free to bash me to bits...

One stalls the aircraft. Instead of the normal pitch down tendency, you end up dropping direction down. The relative wind then is coming from a point perpendicular of the wings (relatively). The wings are still stalled then (CoA still exceeded), but now the vertical and horizontal stabilizer do not have proper airflow.

So how does one break a stall? Reduce the angle of attack. How does one reduce the angle of attack? Lower the nose, pitch down, etc. How does one lower the nose? Horizontal stabilizer. The horizontal stabilizer now does not have proper airflow. There in lies the problem. You drop fast and do not have much control.

 

[MasterBates]

That problem is addressed in Aero discussion about Flat Spins (yes, Maverick, they DO exist.. AFT CG is bad.. Think large IP with tiny SNA), about not being able to get out, due to being unable to break the stall.

Never saw "falling leaf" discussed anywhere though..

 

[scoober78]

Now, I don't know how to fly the F-18 .... but think about it ... why would you keep the power up when you're heading for the ground and out of control .... ???? To tighten the out of control gyrations ... making it harder to come out of it??? To hit the ground while still out of control ... quicker???

He went from @17,000' to @9,000' in about a minute ... I'm surprised someone hasn't said ... "why didn't he punch @ 10,000' if he was out of control ??? It was probably a near thing ....

I'm sure he had to change his flight suit after that ride. I would have ... in fact, I have ...

I know even less about the -18...but there is a warning in the -34 Natops OCF that if recovery from a spin isn't evident after two revolutions with proper i/p's applied....that we should apply max power. The claim is that it aids in erect spin recovery in either direction...

Are there similar situations in the -18???? Other aircraft???

 

[MasterBates]

In the T-34, the power will increase airflow (more propwash) over the control surfaces you are trying to use..

In a Jet, no such luck.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I also (no joke) heard a story about some STUD popping the canopy back (on his T-34), wiggling his way forward and physically banging on the topside of the engine compartment until the nose dropped down in a particularly flattened (and developed) spin. I would guess that this is probably an urban legend, but maybe that would work on an -18?

 

[Penguin]

I also (no joke) heard a story about some STUD popping the canopy back (on his T-34), wiggling his way forward and physically banging on the topside of the engine compartment until the nose dropped down in a particularly flattened (and developed) spin. I would guess that this is probably an urban legend, but maybe that would work on an -18?

You may wink at this comment in the T-34C, but we actually had a student in Advanced Helos stop a dynamic rollover from the back seat by unstrapping and lunging for the high side of the helo as it tipped. They were on asphalt in the summer heat and a skid sank into a section that had been softened by fuel/heat. I believe the stud was awarded a NAM for saving the helo, and a pink sheet for unstrapping in a moving aircraft (2nd half is a joke)

 

[scoober78]

In the T-34, the power will increase airflow (more propwash) over the control surfaces you are trying to use..

In a Jet, no such luck.

Oh....yeah. Talk about an embarrasing lack of thinking that one through. Thanks Bates.

Try to remember that when you do OCF in the mighty mighty C-2 eh???

 

[invertedflyer]

reminds me of that hornet departure in "red october"... same angels at the bottom. not sure if it was falling leaf though.

 

[FMRAM]

I also (no joke) heard a story about some STUD popping the canopy back (on his T-34), wiggling his way forward and physically banging on the topside of the engine compartment until the nose dropped down in a particularly flattened (and developed) spin. I would guess that this is probably an urban legend, but maybe that would work on an -18?

Yea Skeeterman PM'ed me the same story.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Yea Skeeterman PM'ed me the same story.

Ahhh... You missed it - what he PM'd you was about a N2N. Remember, he went through flight school back when...

 

[BOMBSonHAWKEYES]

going to idle reduces compressor stalls and the gyroscopic effects of the engine on the aircraft's spin.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Ahhh... You missed it - what he PM'd you was about a N2N. Remember, he went through flight school back when...

no no no....you both got it wrong. He was riding shotgun on Eugene Ely's first trap, and as they rolled into the groove Skeeter's quick application of said banging maneuver prevented an (accidental) developing spin from ruining Naval Aviation's first shipboard recovery. He recieved the NAM for his actions, and was given the honor of sharing the title of first Naval Aviator with Mr. Ely.

 

[jarhead]

OCF procedures for the "classic" hornet, such as the one in the video ...

controls release/feet off rudders/speedbreak in
still out of control:
throttles - idle
altitude, AOA, airspeed, yaw rate - check
when recovery is indicated by AOA & yaw rate tones removed, side forces subsided, airspeed accelerating above 180 knots - recover
passing 6000 feet AGL dive recovery not initiated - eject

couple side-notes ...
the fella in the video was below 6000 feet AGL ... he saved a jet though

if the hornet goes out of control or into a spin ("classic" hornet has different procedures for OCF & Spin), you let go of the controls and are along for the ride as the 1980's based computer takes over the flight controls and tries to recover for you

IIRC (it's been almost a year), the falling leaf in the "classic" hornet occurs when the jet is slow speed/high alpha and turning and the pilot tries to reverse quickly by rolling the jet with full opposite stick & rudder ... the jet starts to roll, AOA & Yaw rate quickly builds, the jet doesn't like it, and departs back in the original direction.

the FCS software was updated a few years ago that almost totally negates the falling leaf in the "classic" hornet

S/F

 

[scoober78]

^^^^^ Thanks for the info for us, the great unwashed.

the FCS software was updated a few years ago that almost totally negates the falling leaf in the "classic" hornet

I understand, but this is the oddest sentence to get used to...