Female applicants and haircuts

[Spekkio]

A Woman's hair is her glory.

This is why candidates got haircuts.

I doubt it'd go over well to make women completely shave their heads and you can't make us shave our faces, so there's not a whole lot you can do to us. If you want to make females look and feel undignified and gross in solidarity with the males, chopping off a bunch of hair in the most hideous way possible isn't a bad way to do it, though the chop actually makes it easier to get ready in the morning.

It has nothing to do with making people look gross or undignified, and everything to do with making everyone look the same in the most efficient manner possible. You're not John, Paul, Jane, or Sarah, you're a candidate. You wear the same uniform and have the same haircut as everyone else.

From a practical standpoint, it makes sense to have females get used to doing it properly since most will probably wear their hair that way for most of their careers anyway.

This is absurd. You're saying that a 22-29 year old college graduate needs 3 months to figure out how to tie her hair in a bun?

 

[jaimej]

I agree with why they cut your hair. It's a part of breaking you down to build you up. It's uniformity.... I am 23 years old and have been managing my own hair styles since I was 9. With very curly, frizzy hair I am grateful for "good hair days" and when my ponytails are not lopsided. So 3 months may seem like a long time to perfect a bun, but I am still trying after 14 years. Also, I won't have my flat iron so the chances of a perfect bun have just went to 10%, and that is also depending on the humidity.

 

[LET73]

I can't imagine why female candidates would want to have long hair at OCS, but yeah, if they no longer have to look like 12-year-old boys, what's the justification for the guys getting their heads shaved, as long as their hair is also within regs? Everyone gets to be special, no one has to get their feelings hurt.

Seriously, it's hair. It grows back.

 

[IRfly]

You say that, but as I was standing at attention waiting to be shorn, one of the female candidates in my class was getting her hair cut within view of my thousand-yard stare. One of the most miserable people I've ever seen--and she no-kidding DOR'd right after the haircut.

 

[ea6bflyr]

You say that, but as I was standing at attention waiting to be shorn, one of the female candidates in my class was getting her hair cut within view of my thousand-yard stare. One of the most miserable people I've ever seen--and she no-kidding DOR'd right after the haircut.

Probably a good thing....for the Navy.

 

[klamsy]

This is why candidates got haircuts.

It has nothing to do with making people look gross or undignified, and everything to do with making everyone look the same in the most efficient manner possible. You're not John, Paul, Jane, or Sarah, you're a candidate. You wear the same uniform and have the same haircut as everyone else.

This is absurd. You're saying that a 22-29 year old college graduate needs 3 months to figure out how to tie her hair in a bun?

I'm not invested in this either way (though in all fairness I would probably find it lame if USNA changed their female plebe hair policy), I'm just assuming that the Navy's using some kind of logic here aside from wanting the female candidates to feel like pretty pretty princesses.

 

[robav8r]

Your hair is your glory, really? Just because someone said it doesn't mean it is true or worth indulging. I'd think that those gold bars on your shoulder would be a bit more glorious. (I am a woman, and a civilian, FWIW.)

Fuckin' A

We could use a lot more like you V !!!

 

[LFCFan]

I'd argue that a well tied up bun looks more squared away than a mess of hair hovering above the collar. I think that is an argument that both men and women can get behind. Women don't get to be snowflakes if all with long hair have it up in a bun, and already lose the rights to a lot of girly stuff (makeup and jewelry) at OCS as it is.

 

[jaimej]

It doesn't really matter one way or the other. If the policy hasn't changed, those of us women who want this life so badly will be getting our hair cut. And if the policy has changed, then we will be deciding for ourselves, individually, the best way to wear our hair in OCS that it is in regulation and doesn't make OCS more challenging than it already is. Period.

 

[IRfly]

Probably a good thing....for the Navy.

Well...Not the end of the story.

3 women (out of 38) checked in on Sunday. One failed her in-PRT (pushups), the one DOR'd, and we were left with one, and threatened with holy hell if we let anything happen to her (yep, that's our responsibility). Anyways, after the one lady DOR'd, the OCS command team jumped into action and persuaded her to stay. She graduated with the next class.

 

[BackOrdered]

Fuckin' A

We could use a lot more like you V !!!

All,

She was quoting the Bible, I'm sure she isn't speaking in the context we all assumed. Things can be held sacred without a physical context.

At the same time jaimej, it is a fallacy to quote Faith for reference and not be up front about it.

 

[jaimej]

All,

She was quoting the Bible, I'm sure she isn't speaking in the context we all assumed. Things can be held sacred without a physical context.

At the same time jaimej, it is a fallacy to quote Faith for reference and not be up front about it.

I guess I assumed it was a pretty well known scripture. Also, I hinted that it wasn't my own thoughts, but I didn't want to really get into religion and was going to leave it at that. I thought I should clarify after Villanelle thought I was some kind mindless follower who didn't know how to separate facts and opinion, and also questioned my drive and dedication to the Navy by assuming that my hair was more important than my gold bar.

 

[BackOrdered]

I guess I assumed it was a pretty well known scripture. Also, I hinted that it wasn't my own thoughts, but I didn't want to really get into religion and was going to leave it at that. I thought I should clarify after Villanelle thought I was some kind mindless follower who didn't know how to separate facts and opinion, and also questioned my drive and dedication to the Navy by assuming that my hair was more important than my gold bar.

Always remember your audience. You can't assume people know everything you know. That has nothing to do with Faith, even then it is a dangerous assumption to expect your Sailors to know or follow your Faith as well as your directions, policies or procedures without proper context. As you have witnessed, it sets your intention up for failure.

 

[villanelle]

I guess I assumed it was a pretty well known scripture. Also, I hinted that it wasn't my own thoughts, but I didn't want to really get into religion and was going to leave it at that. I thought I should clarify after Villanelle thought I was some kind mindless follower who didn't know how to separate facts and opinion, and also questioned my drive and dedication to the Navy by assuming that my hair was more important than my gold bar.

Whether it was the Bible or Little Women (which I believe echos the sentiment), it makes no different to me. I don't think you are a mindless follower. But I do think that scripture has no place in determining OCS policy, or in a conversation about said policy. So I don't care where it come from. And frankly, it's not a notion that I respect, regardless of origin. It seems like silly vanity to me. Sorry if that offends your Christian senses, but it's my feeling.

Also, you stated that a woman's hair is her glory, as a general statement. My hair, which it long and healthy and probably considered "good hair", is *not* my glory, so it irked me that you spoke as though you were speaking for me. I get that it was a literary/biblical allusion, but none the less, it would be wise to learn not to make definitive statements. "My hair is my glory" speaks for you and you alone. If you presume to speak for others, then you are going to get disagreement. *This woman's* hair isn't even on the top 20 of her "glories". Your religion is not everyone's and you'd do well to remember that.

But you can't refer to the bible and then say you don't want to get into religion. You either open the door, or you don't. You did.

And my point, that someone accepted to OCS should be more "glorified" by her commission than her hair, stands. Feel free to disagree, or not.

 

[jaimej]

Villanelle
Good thing we live in America and are welcome to say how we feel, religious or otherwise, true or otherwise. I was simply stating how I feel on a policy that applies to me. You can talk about this until you are blue in the face, and it will not affect you because you are not going to OCS. Just like I can talk about this on an Internet forum until I am blue in the face, and it will not change the Navy's policy.

You do not have to respect my notions, my thoughts, or my religion, but I am just as entitled to them as you are to your own. Again, I can and will say whatever I feel as it applies to me. I did not attempt to speak for all women in a defininitive way with my quote, I was using it more as a proverb or adage.

I can refer to the Bible and then say I don't want to get into religion. I didn't say it was from the Bible in the first place for that reason. I was using it as an old proverb, and those who got the reference would have just got it and those who did not would just not. I only chose to elaborate when you thought it was from a person. I don't think my religion is everyone else's, but I can share mine if I so choose. Also, I am knowledgeable on various other religions and can appreciate the differences, similarities, or even just learning something new about them. I will not apologize for not being afraid to speak about religion. You say scripture has no place in OCS policy, and while I agree on separation of Church and State, have you ever counted how many times God is mentioned in OCS gouge? "I will trust in my God and the United States of America."

Hair may not be your glory, and it is not my highest one either. At 23, my highest glory is being selected as one of 32 Officer Candidates for the Navy Supply Corps. I worked so hard for it. You will not take that from me with your misunderstanding of my sentiments. I have spoken to many female Officers and they have said that one of the worst parts of OCS was getting their hair cut. I am not alone in not wanting to cut my hair. As I have said plenty of times, hair would never be the reason I didn't commission. I have never said that hair was "more glorious than anything else.