Yes.
No problem.
On a regular basis ....
But watch out for those Montana ANG F-106 drivers ... those boys have their sh!t together and will give you a better ride for your money than Six Flags Over Texas ....
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Fight's On! The origins of TOPGUN and dogfights back in the day/future prospects
- Thread starter futrMarineBlueAngel
- Start date
Yes.
No problem.
On a regular basis ....
But watch out for those Montana ANG F-106 drivers ... those boys have their sh!t together and will give you a better ride for your money than Six Flags Over Texas ....
invertedflyer
500 ft. from said obstacle
F-16 vs F/A-18 1v1 BFM
This is a video of a 1v1 DACT -- F/A-18C vs. F-16C. I don't believe theres audio. Initial criticism that I heard is that he bled off too much altitude during the fight. Any hornet guys out there care to comment?
http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/Guest/249/
Heres another.
This is a video of a 1v1 DACT -- F/A-18C vs. F-16C. I don't believe theres audio. Initial criticism that I heard is that he bled off too much altitude during the fight. Any hornet guys out there care to comment?
http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/Guest/249/
Heres another.
invertedflyer
500 ft. from said obstacle
I don't recall who made those comments, but they didn't seem to make sense to me either... its obvious through the video that he took a couple shots... viper driver took a beating here...good shtuff!
I think that first video was discussed here before...
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11092
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11092
Why didn't they make sense to you?
Once again, Mefesto knows from which he says…and steals my thunder.
It's really impossible to critique without knowing the actual dynamics and parameters of the fight. However, it's always nice – and never surprising – to see Navy hard on Air Force's six o'clock.
Nevertheless, although there is limited data, I would say that neither pilot is very experienced in BFM. While the Hornet does well in maintaining the attack, I see no real classic or very effective maneuvers, offensively or defensively. Once, I do see the Viper make a fatal mistake, but it appears the Hornet doesn't quite capitalize on it.
In sum, an interesting but not a very impressive fight.
Seriously, I believe given A4's experience and BFM training, he might give either pilot fits, even in his old and antiquated, and relatively very limited A-4 . . . that is if he were decades younger, and if he could actually see the bogie.
[EDIT: After posting the above, I then found the following earlier post by "jarhead" which surprisingly fits in with what I said...http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11092
It's really impossible to critique without knowing the actual dynamics and parameters of the fight. However, it's always nice – and never surprising – to see Navy hard on Air Force's six o'clock.
Nevertheless, although there is limited data, I would say that neither pilot is very experienced in BFM. While the Hornet does well in maintaining the attack, I see no real classic or very effective maneuvers, offensively or defensively. Once, I do see the Viper make a fatal mistake, but it appears the Hornet doesn't quite capitalize on it.
In sum, an interesting but not a very impressive fight.
Seriously, I believe given A4's experience and BFM training, he might give either pilot fits, even in his old and antiquated, and relatively very limited A-4 . . . that is if he were decades younger, and if he could actually see the bogie.
[EDIT: After posting the above, I then found the following earlier post by "jarhead" which surprisingly fits in with what I said...http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11092
invertedflyer
500 ft. from said obstacle
yeah I searched around for the thread, because I knew I'd seen it somewhere but was unable to locate it... thanks for the catch.
Carno,
Well, given that there isn't any data, audio, or text supporting the engagement its hard to establish whether there was a hard-deck or not. Regardless, it seems that while the -18 drivers performance may have been mediocre according to Catmando, the hornet driver still was able to maintain a positive position and did this fairly quickly. Although the MFDs are flickery you can pick out him coming up with a firing solution at least twice.
Carno,
Well, given that there isn't any data, audio, or text supporting the engagement its hard to establish whether there was a hard-deck or not. Regardless, it seems that while the -18 drivers performance may have been mediocre according to Catmando, the hornet driver still was able to maintain a positive position and did this fairly quickly. Although the MFDs are flickery you can pick out him coming up with a firing solution at least twice.
invertedflyer
500 ft. from said obstacle
Upon reviewing the previous thread...I wonder how jarhead obtained this clip. Any comments Jarhead, if you're out there?
Not necessarily "mediocre". He seemed to know what he was doing, and seemed to perform well. It's just that his manuevers and performance was not exceptionally impressive, leading me to believe he didn't have extensive experience. And the F-16 driver appeared to be a real "grape".
With a helmet camera stuck on my helmet.
Every full-up BFM flight has a hard deck so I'm not sure what you are getting at with that comment?
The fight took place almost 2 years ago and was a standard butterfly set starting at 15k, 400knots, 1.5nm abeam … full-up at the merge, Aim-9M’s & guns only. Both of us had about 500hours or so in our aircraft. I appreciate your critique but there was no reason to do anything fancy against this guy. All he wanted to do was arch around the horizon and try to out rate me. I probably could have used the vertical more, maybe buying me a quicker -9M shot post merge but I am interested in hearing your opinions/critiques about what could have been done better, and what you would have done in the Phantom against this fella.
The F-16 pilot was an arrogant tool, prior to the flight.
S/F
Curious, is it common to switch hands like he does while he's maneuvering? A few times he has his right hand up on the right canopy rail handle which would make me think he's flying left handed.
Not a big deal I suppose, I do swap hands when tuning vor's, etc, but I just wouldn't think so during bfm or high rate maneuvers as the left hand might need to manipulate the throttles at the same time.
Not a big deal I suppose, I do swap hands when tuning vor's, etc, but I just wouldn't think so during bfm or high rate maneuvers as the left hand might need to manipulate the throttles at the same time.
invertedflyer
500 ft. from said obstacle
I meant it would be hard to establish what the hard deck was, since we had no audio etc.
I'm obviously not half as experienced as any of you guys... But coming off my original take of the fight I thought that you did pretty good. It seems that right off you had the "angles", and the viper dude was just digging his hole deeper. Am I correct in my observation that you got a couple sidewinder fixes on him? For an individual like me, getting in-cockpit footage like that just makes me go ga-ga. Great stuff jar, and if you've got more please, be our guest.
A fair question. Given the disparity in performance, I would certainly be somewhat hesitant to engage an F-16 in an F-4. Nevertheless, I still would somewhat briefly put an aggressive, hard move on him if only to assess his skill. If he was the grape he seemed to be, a nose-high, unloaded extension would be in order, and then, depending upon his maneuver, a hard, nose-low reversal back into him, or just a bug-out. Perhaps fortunately, I never had to fight F-16's in an F-4
But I have fought them in an F-14A and won, even though outmatched in aircraft capability.
As far as a critique of the video… again it is difficult without knowing all the dynamics – G, speed, AOA, and the specific performance of each aircraft – turn rate, radius, roll rate, thrust to weight, corner speed, bleed rate, etc.
But assuming the aircraft are similar in performance, you gained very nice angles most quickly at the outset, and maintained them quite well. But then it became mostly a long, horizontal, high-G turning fight for too long. Although you did use the vertical a little, much more use of the vertical, I think was warranted. In at least one situation, a nose-high displacement roll to the left (a hi-G rudder led barrel-roll if you will) would have cemented the deal. Also, given his apparent, limited skill, he should have been meat for either a high speed or low speed, rolling scissors. At one point, when he broke nose-down and showed vulnerability, a corresponding maneuver by you seemed lacking.
Having said all that, it is a lot easier to talk about it than do it. And any critique via a video pales in comparison to the fight being observed first hand. Also, I know that how BFM is taught today differs substantially from back in the day. Back then, there was far more maneuvering rather than just turning. Finally I always believed that fighting a horizontal, two-dimensional fight gives the opponent a 33.3% advantage in our three-dimensional world. Check six.