First flight of the P-8A Poseidon and all things related to transition

[xj220]

I'm curious, when the P-8 comes down the pipe and a squadron switches over, could they take those P-3s and give them to other squadrons to supplement things, or would they go straight to the bone yards?

 

[webmaster]

I'm curious, when the P-8 comes down the pipe and a squadron switches over, could they take those P-3s and give them to other squadrons to supplement things, or would they go straight to the bone yards?

Both. Those aircraft will be used to keep the other squadrons going until the transition is complete. The hours and G limitations are there to keep those planes in one piece to make it through the complete transition. You will be seeing P3s around for another decade.

 

[HAL Pilot]

A much higher percentage of the training will be completed in simulators - which for pilots will count (if the Navy gets and maintains the FAA cert) towards their flight hours.

I hope you don't plan on counting that sim time for any future airline application/employment. The FAA may say level D time counts as flight time but the industry doesn't and most see those who try and use it as trying to pad their logbooks. I log it under the sim column only to show currency and and training. It does not get added into my instrument, PIC, SIC, total or any other time.

 

[webmaster]

I hope you don't plan on counting that sim time for any future airline application/employment. The FAA may say level D time counts as flight time but the industry doesn't and most see those who try and use it as trying to pad their logbooks. I log it under the sim column only to show currency and and training. It does not get added into my PIC, SIC, total or any other time.

In my last squadron, sim time was for currency only.

The visual fidelity in our new sims is much better, but for me, I still feel a disconnect between the actual plane and the sim.

 

[HAL Pilot]

The visual fidelity in our new sims is much better, but for me, I still feel a disconnect between the actual plane and the sim.

I've trained in 717, 727, 737, 767, DC-10 and Citation level D sims. They're awesome for instrumentation, procedures, etc. but the feel is never quite the same. Some sims are easier to fly than the plane and some sims are harder. However they are close enough that when I do that first landing in the real plane (usually with pax onboard) I've never broken it.....

 

[MasterBates]

When did CMO get shitcanned?

 

[webmaster]

When did CMO get shitcanned?

Late November or early December.... can't recall exactly when, but it is very recent.

 

[xj220]

How is maintenance taken care of then? Is each squadron assigned a certain amount of birds and their guys take care of it?

 

[webmaster]

The maintainers are going back to their squadrons. Each squadron will once again have its own maintenance dept to take care of the aircraft assigned to the squadron.

 

[Flugelman]

The maintainers are going back to their squadrons. Each squadron will once again have its own maintenance dept to take care of the aircraft assigned to the squadron.

I'm glad to hear that. I had questioned the idea of having a central repository of aircraft/maintainers. It was hard enough keeping crews qualified with squadron control over the aircraft. I can imagine the C/F caused by unexpected aircraft denials, local Wing politics, etc. Also reaction time to changing requirements would be stretched way out. Not to mention the heartburn associated with going on deployment. I could just see the CMO powers that be giving the squadrons their less than stellar performers for deployments. Guess older, wiser heads prevailed?

In Addendum: Not to mention the additional real jobs for the JO's in the squadron to excel in...

 

[Flash]

That was proposed by Flash, but he's not in N88 so it's 6 per squadron according to the plan plus 12 in FRS. That's not splitting hairs, it's a difference of a huge investment.

Nothing official here, just an idea that popped into my head.

As to Flash's proposal, FRS isn't just basic handling, it's to train students in how to employ the whole package so using 12 vanilla 737s doesn't address the entire challenge and SIMs give a good intro, but you have to get into the air sometime. Otherwise, you could send the pilots to Flight Safety or somewhere similar.

As far as flying the real thing at the FRS, I agree w/ you HJ. The FRS is getting you accustomed to the new bird, why use an aircraft different from the one you will fly in the fleet?

I think you all misunderstood my idea, I was just suggesting a cheap and dirty way for the Navy to supplement its training aircraft numbers was to buy used 737's of a similar model to the P-8, which is basically a modded 737-800. This is not a new idea, we did it in VQ-1 for years. We had a variety of vanilla P-3's that we used for pilot training to save wear and tear on the mission birds (which we were not allowed to bounce), and at various times when I was there we had two types of VP-3A, a UP-3B and several P-3C's with no mission gear. We used them as pilot proficiency aircraft and 'cargo' birds to great benefit. Without them we would not have been able to meet our training requirements for the pilots every month.

A couple of vanilla 737's that you could use for pilot training aircraft at each P-8 base would be a cheap and easy way to not only save wear and tear on the mission birds and to supplement pilot training. They would not replace the mission birds at the RAG, merely supplement them. By the time the P-8 comes on-line there will probably be some airlines ready to part with some NG737's for cheap.

Just an idea, a good one too if I might say so myself!

 

[Mumbles]

The maintainers are going back to their squadrons. Each squadron will once again have its own maintenance dept to take care of the aircraft assigned to the squadron.

John,

has CMO been that big of a goat rope??? I remember thinking that it was pretty inane with squadrons swapping planes and what that could lead to, but it seems like starting about 3 or 4 years ago it was a necessary evil.

 

[xj220]

Nothing official here, just an idea that popped into my head.





A couple of vanilla 737's that you could use for pilot training aircraft at each P-8 base would be a cheap and easy way to not only save wear and tear on the mission birds and to supplement pilot training. They would not replace the mission birds at the RAG, merely supplement them. By the time the P-8 comes on-line there will probably be some airlines ready to part with some NG737's for cheap.

Just an idea, a good one too if I might say so myself!

BBJs anyone?

 

[webmaster]

John,

has CMO been that big of a goat rope??? I remember thinking that it was pretty inane with squadrons swapping planes and what that could lead to, but it seems like starting about 3 or 4 years ago it was a necessary evil.

I can't give you an executive summary or anything, all I can discuss is being an end user of the system. Unfortunately, in my limited view, the CMO organization was given an impossible task trying to satisfy competing priorities from deployed maint dets, weighing each CO/OPSO priorities, and juggling maintenance needs. All while trying to build unit morale with the maintainers. Many of the comments I have heard from maintainers are positive WRT to going back to the squadrons. I don't think it was ever a compelling need to switch to CMO, but was viewed more as a way to address pooling of limited assets and manpower.

Now, we get back the accountability of the Maintenance Department to the CO, and a competitive billet for a DH. Wonder what's going to happen to the much vaunted WDD?

I think we all have our horror stories with respect to CMO. I always tried to keep it professional, and work with them when waiting for an aircraft or signing the ADB. But sometimes seeing the sad state some of the aircraft were in was really depressing to me on a personal level (I am talking about non-aircraft downing gripes that were not resolved and continued to pile up into multiple binders, such as my pet peeve, ICS and radio selector lighting). I have and continue to be very comfortable flying the aircraft, and do not doubt the safety. The P3 is a wonderful and very forgiving aircraft to fly, but when things get squirrelly, you better know your shit!

John

 

[PropStop]

Second the CMO didn't work lines above. I did the IUT in Jax (I was a NUW guy) and had to deal with CMO. It was extremely painful and a lot of my events got CANX'd, despite being PRI1.

I'm happy to hear it died! Besides, those leadership opportunities afforded by having MX in the squadron cannot be discounted.