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First flight of the P-8A Poseidon and all things related to transition

STLEngineer

STLEngineer

Registered User
pilot
1rotorhead said:
How about "complete waste of taxpayers money"?
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At least I didn't start it this time.

However, in the realm of money saving, it's much cheaper than a brand new aircraft (a no brainer). Also, it will be integrated in the production line with the rest of the 737s for the most part. As I recall, it's competitor was an upgraded P-3, so the saving's weren't as big in the final selection.

While it is a big change to take a civilian airliner and bring it up to MilSpecs, the fact that the 737 has a proven record for 30-40+ years doesn't hurt it.

Those are the biggest structural changes are just beefing up some structure here and there and adding a weapons bay and wing pylons (and a million sensors, fairings, antennas, etc).
 
1rotorhead

1rotorhead

Registered User
pilot
Just seems we could get a much smaller/cheaper aircraft to do the same thing. Why do you need such a large crew to accomplish the mission that is required? Pretty good idea about the community. Was stationed in Jax and was forced to put up with the VP insanity.
 
PropStop

PropStop

Kool-Aid free since 2001.
pilot
Contributor
1rotorhead said:
Just seems we could get a much smaller/cheaper aircraft to do the same thing. Why do you need such a large crew to accomplish the mission that is required? Pretty good idea about the community. Was stationed in Jax and was forced to put up with the VP insanity.
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MPA requires a large crew because we have numerous sensors to monitor, we fly for very long periods of time so we need backup flight crew members and we need a large plane to fit all the computers and sensors in. Further, we carry a huge variety of weapons, including torpedoes (and we can carry a lot more than a helo), tons of gas, and lots of sono-buoys. Though they may be able to design a plane from the ground up that is smaller and can carry all the stuff we need, by using an existing, proven airframe we can greatly reduce the R&D cost.

If you don't think MPA provides many very important capabilities, talk to some guys on the ground who have been supported by us, they may change your opinion.
 
Brett327

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
1rotorhead said:
Just seems we could get a much smaller/cheaper aircraft to do the same thing. Why do you need such a large crew to accomplish the mission that is required? Pretty good idea about the community. Was stationed in Jax and was forced to put up with the VP insanity.
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Well, I was stationed on the same base as a bunch of gator freighters, but I have no idea how they do their mission or what their future requirements or manning ought to be. Come to think of it, my neighbor is a sub officer, and although I'm forced to put up with his insanity, I have no idea how to run a reactor, nor would I presume to tell him ANYTHING about how he ought to do his job. Jesus Christ! At least you're honest about your ignorance.

Brett
 
N

NavyLonghorn

Registered User
1rotorhead said:
Just seems we could get a much smaller/cheaper aircraft to do the same thing. Why do you need such a large crew to accomplish the mission that is required? Pretty good idea about the community. Was stationed in Jax and was forced to put up with the VP insanity.
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Why dont you dont you give the VQ community a shout and ask them how the smaller aircaft idea worked out for them.

I guess since you didnt live on a base near them aswell you would have less of an opinion.

Now if you will excuse me, im going to go tell the Hoover guys how to do their job, I do taxi by them every day afterall!
 
Sabre170

Sabre170

Active Member
None
Is the MMA a sure thing? Is the Navy REALLY going to buy the new plane and field them or is there a GOOD chance they will back out of it and do something else? I hope it is for real.

Also, does anyone know if the Navy looked at using the new c-130 model to use in place of the P-3? It would seem to be a good replacement as far as size and ability, not to mention the refueling capability? Just a thought.
 
STLEngineer

STLEngineer

Registered User
pilot
All I know is Lockheed (who also makes the C-130) put an upgraded P-3 in the final competition.

Pretty sure it's the real deal. I recall someone before posting that there will be about 180 of them made. Boeing in Renton, WA is hiring a TON of people to work on it. So many that I (in St. Louis) was even contracted out to do some major design-to work on the weapons bay doors, store and pylons, and fairings.

A buddy of mine even got a $7,500 bonus for going up there (to Renton from St. Louis) to work for just 6 months, and he's just 2 years out of college.
 
Stubby

Stubby

Ask the Chief
MMA, the real deal....

Sabre170 said:
Is the MMA a sure thing? Is the Navy REALLY going to buy the new plane and field them or is there a GOOD chance they will back out of it and do something else? I hope it is for real.

Also, does anyone know if the Navy looked at using the new c-130 model to use in place of the P-3? It would seem to be a good replacement as far as size and ability, not to mention the refueling capability? Just a thought.
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MMA is as real as it gets without actually having a completed model on the ramp. Nothing is really set until a fleet squadron is operating it (just ask the guys in charge of the P-7 or the Update IV.). However, the funding is supposedly in place, and from the latest briefing I saw, everything is on time and on budget (What are the odds?).

As far as the C-130 goes, if the Navy wanted to stay with props, it would have just updated the P-3 (like the P-8 or Update IV.). since C-130's and P-3's actually use the same engines.

As a nostalgic P-3 guy, I was skeptical about some of the MMA ideas... no flight engineer, probably no in flight technician, two engine jet, contractor maintenance... but the plan seems reasonably well conceived on most points, and the Patrol Aviation is changing.........
 
1rotorhead

1rotorhead

Registered User
pilot
If you think that's the best fit for you, then more power to you. I have worked with VP multiple times and do understand their capabilities. Sorry if it hurt your feelings. My insanity comment comes from the way I've seen the community do business, i.e. deploying a squadron from Brunswick to Jax (calling it a deployment) while at the same time sending a squadron from Jax to the Med.
 
HooverPilot

HooverPilot

CODPilot
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
1rotorhead said:
My insanity comment comes from the way I've seen the community do business, i.e. deploying a squadron from Brunswick to Jax (calling it a deployment) while at the same time sending a squadron from Jax to the Med.
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I remember when they did that - It was retarded...

I don't think you should be able to call it a deployment if you can drive home from the site.
 
Brett327

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
1rotorhead said:
My insanity comment comes from the way I've seen the community do business, i.e. deploying a squadron from Brunswick to Jax (calling it a deployment) while at the same time sending a squadron from Jax to the Med.
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What does that have to do with the P-8 or the MMA mission? You can't judge an entire community, or the validity of its mission based on a single incident which you likely didn't understand. There are almost always valid big picture reasons for apparently inexplicable decisions. I'm still interested in why you think the P-8 is a waste of money.

Brett
 
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