First flight of the P-8A Poseidon and all things related to transition

[Jim123]

About ten times the chances that the Marines do. Then again, ten times nothing is still nothing.

So what you're saying is, exponentially better.

Math is fun.

You think 1200 is rough? Nowadays, it's a lot worse. I'll leave my first tour with probably just over 800TT, if that....

800TT is about middle of the road these days for Navy helo guys leaving their first sea tour. Ten years ago that number would have been more like 1000~1500, and yes, it sucks and it's demotivating to be in the famine part of this cycle.

 

[e6bflyer]

But could you actually use it for a FAA check ride? I ask because when I was researching this for the -60B sim, I ran across a bunch of anecdotes online from AF heavy guys that concluded they couldn't use their C-17/5/130 sims because they weren't actually certified, even though everyone knows they'll meet the requirements.

I figured if the AF won't pay for it, what hope does the majority of the Navy have?

That is the story with our sim as well. It is "Level D Equivalent" which just means that they don't want to pay to certify it. Unfortunately, this means it can't be used for FAA check rides. The good news is that it is a mediocre approximation of actual flight in the E6, and we are paying the GDP of a European country to lease it from a contractor, so we have that going for us.

 

[robav8r]

But could you actually use it for a FAA check ride?

Nope, the community tested to the fidelity but with no requirement, funding the FAA certification was a non starter.

That is the story with our sim as well. It is "Level D Equivalent" which just means that they don't want to pay to certify it.

Seems like a common theme that won't get better under the current & future fiscal environments.

 

[Gatordev]

Seems like a common theme that won't get better under the current & future fiscal environments.

And really, does it need to get "better?" It's not like the Navy/MC needs to fund the ability for it's members to get good deals. I'm all about the good deal, and have scammed my fair share of them, but I'd rather have a working <insert aircraft system> than be able to take my ATP at work.

Besides, there's still ways to make that happen in the fleet if you work the angle well enough (or just go to the HTs).

 

[robav8r]

And really, does it need to get "better?"

My comment was in the context of more & more "flight" time being conducted in the sim (roughly 70% for T&R events for P-8). I realize that doesn't necessarily mean pilot centric OFT events, but the trend is definitely more training in the Sim and less in the A/C. So, is/will the fidelity (currently) be good enough?

 

[Gatordev]

My comment was in the context of more & more "flight" time being conducted in the sim (roughly 70% for T&R events for P-8). I realize that doesn't necessarily mean pilot centric OFT events, but the trend is definitely more training in the Sim and less in the A/C. So, is/will the fidelity (currently) be good enough?

I'd argue that it's never good enough, but I get what you're saying. I was speaking more in an admin role (certification) and not in a useful role (flight model/systems model fidelity). I have a feeling we were talking about two different things but neither precluded the other.

 

[PropAddict]

The trick (as I'm sure you know) is that the military sim has to actually be certified. Usually the military doesn't want (or need) to pay for it to get/maintain certification for the FAA.

I'm leaning more toward the "want" side.

The more I talk with community bigwigs about P-8 and transition vs. commitment time and decreasing bonuses, the more I realize these guys have it absolutley nailed to the wall. The whole system is intentionally built to keep people in, in such a way that either a) you won't have hiring mins at your wings+8 or b) you won't have currency due to completing that IA/disassoc. They're not worried about a "brain drain" to the airlines at all, and it's totally because they know they've already orchestrated the system in a such a way to prevent it. Not certifying the OFTs is, I suspect, an intentional part of that.

 

[BACONATOR]

There's one currently parked on the line here at Andersen.... where from, I wonder...

 

[Gatordev]

I'm leaning more toward the "want" side.

The more I talk with community bigwigs about P-8 and transition vs. commitment time and decreasing bonuses, the more I realize these guys have it absolutley nailed to the wall. The whole system is intentionally built to keep people in, in such a way that either a) you won't have hiring mins at your wings+8 or b) you won't have currency due to completing that IA/disassoc. They're not worried about a "brain drain" to the airlines at all, and it's totally because they know they've already orchestrated the system in a such a way to prevent it. Not certifying the OFTs is, I suspect, an intentional part of that.

I doubt anything is that well organized. But I appreciate your cynicism. I'm still not sure how we kept the F-117 secret for so long.

I think the wings+8 is definitely intentional, along with the IA/disassoc. But the flight hour reduction (I say reduction based off what I knew to be the "standard" as a JO) is just a by-product of where we are with FLM/fiscal issues/etc. It does all work in "their" favor though.

But keep this in mind... There's still ways "out" (whatever that may mean for you). I know a Super-JO (Wings+8) guy that, during his SJO tour managed to get his ATP in a gray aircraft, got picked up for SELRES in a "leading" Reserve squadron, and has the mins to go be productive on the outside. So it can be done. Whatever "it" is.

 

[robav8r]

I'm leaning more toward the "want" side.

The more I talk with community bigwigs about P-8 and transition vs. commitment time and decreasing bonuses, the more I realize these guys have it absolutley nailed to the wall. The whole system is intentionally built to keep people in, in such a way that either a) you won't have hiring mins at your wings+8 or b) you won't have currency due to completing that IA/disassoc. They're not worried about a "brain drain" to the airlines at all, and it's totally because they know they've already orchestrated the system in a such a way to prevent it. Not certifying the OFTs is, I suspect, an intentional part of that.

Be careful now . . . don't let the paranoia consume you

 

[Brett327]

Intentional or not, why should the Navy behave otherwise?

 

[Flash]

......The more I talk with community bigwigs about P-8 and transition vs. commitment time and decreasing bonuses, the more I realize these guys have it absolutley nailed to the wall. The whole system is intentionally built to keep people in, in such a way that either a) you won't have hiring mins at your wings+8 or b) you won't have currency due to completing that IA/disassoc. They're not worried about a "brain drain" to the airlines at all, and it's totally because they know they've already orchestrated the system in a such a way to prevent it. Not certifying the OFTs is, I suspect, an intentional part of that.

Since when was the government able to pull off something of such evil genius? To quote the late great Robert A. Heinlein "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity".

 

[Renegade One]

The whole system is intentionally built to keep people in...Not certifying the OFTs is, I suspect, an intentional part of that.

Yep...we are ALL fucking bastards...and always have been.

"Luke, you cannot believe the POWER of "The Dark Side!"

 

[scoolbubba]

I'm leaning more toward the "want" side.

The more I talk with community bigwigs about P-8 and transition vs. commitment time and decreasing bonuses, the more I realize these guys have it absolutley nailed to the wall. The whole system is intentionally built to keep people in, in such a way that either a) you won't have hiring mins at your wings+8 or b) you won't have currency due to completing that IA/disassoc. They're not worried about a "brain drain" to the airlines at all, and it's totally because they know they've already orchestrated the system in a such a way to prevent it. Not certifying the OFTs is, I suspect, an intentional part of that.

The hate is strong in this one. It will take more than one kool aid waterboarding to break you. I see WTI in your future.

 

[PropAddict]

^Already been told "no" for that and almost everything else I asked/applied for. Sometimes a level 4I and a high EP just isn't good enough. So it goes.

Funny thing is that, my whole previous P-8 post was a paraphrase of a brief a comunity O-5 gave me to try tell sell me on a hard fill. Basically like, "if you don't do this now, you won't ever amount to anything inside and this is why you won't be able to do anything outside, either! Bwahahah!"

I hate looking for plan Z....