-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Flight School backed up
- Thread starter Cowgirl
- Start date
When was the training ship introduced in helo advanced?
The whole concept of “restricted” and “unrestricted”- if those are the terms they are actually using- is asinine. It’s setting up a generation of pilots to be forever treated as “lesser than”, with real professional impacts downstream- not to mention watering down the impact of gold wings, assuming helo babies wear the same warfare pin (which they should, and earn it). I sincerely hope this is rumor mill, and not the way of the future.
Enjoy your pool time, and study hard in NIFE so you don’t get voluntold.
The Baylander was built (more accurately rebuilt) for CNATRA in 1986. In my case I landed on it a few times and then on the Lexington a few more. I’m not sure when it was dumped.
I don’t have as big a axe to grind against the “direct to helo” course of action. I know, lots of folk see the loss of fixed wing primary as a blight on their future airline track, but I have my doubts about that. The guys actually in the show will know much better, but on my last two airline flight the cockpit crew was all former army WOs. Looking at spending efficiency, primary is a waste when it comes to helicopter pilots - but then again I’d expect those hours to be made up in training better rotary pilots so maybe that is a greater expense. I used to work with a fellow who went from army WO to USAF helicopters (active duty) and then later to a guard unit flying F-15’s. He had never stepped foot in fixed wing cockpit until his guard transition and he considered the transition rather easy. That said, he might have been a crap jet pilot!
If you want to fly helos (and I mean really want helos) then I would jump right on the fast track.
If you want to fly helos (and I mean really want helos) then I would jump right on the fast track.
Why though when you can go to T-6 primary and also fly helos? What do you see as the benefit to a young Ensign that they'll have over their peers? More time in the fleet? Fewer options for a shore tour? That sounds like it's good for big Navy but bad for the individual.
Bingo. All I see is opportunity for retailers to shoehorn those invididuals into less desirable billets, because they have less experience than their peers.
Additionally- while it may not seem like much- to a first tour JO, that additional hundred hours means something.
Finally, you may be siphoning off a good portion of your talent pool before they’ve had a chance to show their aeronautical aptitude, and update their own preferences. All they know at this stage is they want to fly right now.
To be honest, yeah, I’m looking at it from the big Navy point of view - although I’m not sure they have a very focused point of view.
As for the benefit to the young Ensign, a specific focus on a specific airframe, a defined mission, and more fleet time. I’m not sure why there would be fewer shore tour options but I will admit you know the system better than I do. Lastly, we spend a lot of time scolding youngsters on these pages for focusing on self over service and even aviation over service. Why not consider what is better for the service (and I grant that this is an assumption)?
I’m not convinced it’s better for the service. I am convinced it’s cheaper and that is attractive to a service that is looking for any means to save on training costs. However, the shiniest object is not necessarily the smartest.
If given a choice, could a young aspiring SNA-select not better serve the military with broader early aeronautical experience? Flight experience is an additive endeavor. While ability does play a role, getting more exposure early yields greater learning for a larger proportion of students later on. In short, at the SNA level, the better pilot is almost always the one with more military hours. But that’s big money that big USN can save… at least until those short-changed trainees hit the FRS, and start requiring extra sorties. Then those savings go right out the window.
You don’t think detailers would be more hesitant to send someone with zero FW experience to the VTs on their shore tour? Especially if there are equivalent-milestone aviators WITH fixed-wing hours?
It’s creating a caste within a caste. Not good for the individual, OR the service. But the admiral gets his star and moves on before the problem has time to ripen.
Last edited:
Vts is a significant portion of flying shore tour options. Before signing up for this program, I’d want it in writing that I’m still eligible for vt instructor down the line.
I’d argue this is not better for the service. This is a bandaid to fix a time to train problem. Less flight hours, career impacts, and a two tiered aviation community are real problems that have been left unanswered. There’s also the intangibles of military vs contractor instructors vs primary.
I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, I’m just positing other ideas and I appreciate the input even if it doesn’t agree. I will add this, something has to give in the training pipeline and the best evidence of this is that the services are increasing the time-in-service demands for military aviators.
I might be misinterpreting your post, but unrestricted and restricted was a tongue in cheek comment about helo guys being unrestricted because we could fly anything, vs fixed wing guys who couldn't. I’m not in the loop enough to know if that joke has changed.
To my knowledge it hasn't changed. I haven't encountered it outside of the TRACOM (mainly helo advanced making a note of it when winging new aviators).
Gotcha. As a fixed-wing guy, I was unaware of that joke.
The “straight to helos” route is very real though, and I maintain that it’s a terrible idea.
All good. I'm a fixed-wing guy too. I just saw it when I was at the Whiting VTs. Every other Friday, the marquis said "Congratulations Unrestricted Naval Aviators!" for wingings.