Former VP Speech

[Flash]

It is not against the law under certain specific circumstances. Like, if you are a CIA professional, and the person that you are getting info from is a terrorist, and the president has given you permission (and congress has been briefed and given the go ahead on the procedures).

That is a legal opinion, not a law. Those who employ it are probably in violation of federal, military, and if applicable, state law.

Other that the former president, vice president, and the CIA? If President Obama was so convinced that it didn't work, why did he retain the right to authorize the technique in the future?

Two people who never saw or used it in person and those who advocated for its use in the first place, of course they are going to say it works. Those who have employed it for decades in training, JPRA, say it doesn't. I'll go with the experts.

OK, so torture does not work. I'll give you that. I also think that the folks employed at the CIA know a thing or two more than you do about getting quality information out of people. They developed the exact techniques, and put them into action. The CIA is not in the business of doing things that they know will not work. They got the info that they needed so the FACTS are that waterboarding did work. If you want to cling to the idea that "torture does not work" fine. What we did to those guys did work and lives were saved. Must not have been torture. How convenient.

I am not a trained interrogator or debriefer but I have known several people who are/have been and all have said it does not work.

Before 9/11 the CIA was not in the business of capturing, jailing and interrogating people. They were more in the business of 'debriefing' cooperative persons, like defectors or cooperative sources. The people who were responsible for interrogating terrorists was the FBI and other federal law enforcement. Instead of relying on tried and true methods of interrogation the CIA asked for information about methods our former enemies used, with very mixed results. In reality, the CIA was doing many things on the fly after 9/11. I wold presume things are better now and surprisingly, or not, they have stopped waterboarding people. Figure that.

 

[Clux4]

Please explain the state of mind of a man you wish to waterboard. Remember this same man is already willing to drive a car bomb to a US controlled check-point. (Scroll down for answer)

Cheney is only talking because no one else will be the spokesman for the administration. And do not for once think that Bush 43's administration will suddenly be vindicated a few decades from now. The Republican Party needs to rebuild its base and forsake the older neocons. Necons will never see the White House for a long time.


Answer: 40 virgins!

 

[Flash]

Could it be that his pointed criticism of this current administration is based on LOVE of Country and he's scared shitless that the architecture that kept this country sans attack on our soil for 8 years is systematically being dismantled??

Loving one's country does not mean that one is right. He may be worried how history may judge him and his administration.

 

[Mumbles]

Loving one's country does not mean that one is right. He may be worried how history may judge him and his administration.

Richard Cheney does not give a flying fuck about his approval ratings, (they've gone up 9 points the past month though!) or how history will judge him..... He's not in "campaign mode". You wouldn't think POTUS would still be either.
The man is not infallible, but I'd give the Bush NSC team, including Cheney, pretty high marks for preventing another attack since 9/11.

 

[Clux4]

The man is not infallible, but I'd give the Bush NSC team, including Cheney, pretty high marks for preventing another attack since 9/11.

Can you articulate a few things they did to prevent this attack. Remember that we had a bipartisan 9/11 commission that made recommendations. Even before those recommendations came out, it was obvious the intelligence community needed restructuring which were implemented almost immediately.

 

[murryton]

I'm reading a lot about our nation's values and such. What secular values does our great nation embody? We are a nation of POONs who are only a few years away from removing our remaining testicle like the Europeans.

I agree, we shouldn't torture. We should just saw their f'ing heads off and move on to the next savage.

 

[Clux4]

I'm reading a lot about our nation's values and such. What secular values does our great nation embody? We are a nation of POONs who are only a few years away from removing our remaining testicle like the Europeans.

I agree, we shouldn't torture. We should just saw their f'ing heads off and move on to the next savage.

Do you have the testicles to saw off a man's head?

 

[Mumbles]

Can you articulate a few things they did to prevent this attack. Remember that we had a bipartisan 9/11 commission that made recommendations. Even before those recommendations came out, it was obvious the intelligence community needed restructuring which were implemented almost immediately.

umm....absolutely nothing evidently.:sleep_125 You are unfuckingbelieveable.
I suppose you're going to tell me that the Islamic world loved the US of A prior to GWB and Cheney...and 9/11 would never had happened had it not been for Abu Ghraib and GITMO.

 

[Clux4]

umm....absolutely nothing evidently.:sleep_125 You are unfuckingbelieveable.
I suppose you're going to tell me that the Islamic world loved the US of A prior to GWB and Cheney...and 9/11 would never had happened had it not been for Abu Ghraib and GITMO.

Scroll back up and point out Abu Ghraib or GITMO in my previous post.

Your arguement that Bush was able to protect the US from another attack is WEAK and this is why it is. Obama has not done anything drastically different in the last 100 days that has significantly changed US security posture. So if something were to happen tomorrow, would it be Obama's fault? I guess you would say his plan to close down GITMO made us unsafe in the last 100 days. Just another political deceit. Say anything you want.

Let us look back in time to the Clinton days; if your argument holds true, Clinton was actually successful in holding off terror attacks after 1993. But when GWB came in, he dropped the ball.

America today is safe because we have law enforcement officials, and intelligence analyst doing their job to make sure America is safe. The guy in the White house has no bearing on how well we prevent the next attack. Yeap, he drives policies but who does the heavy lifting? GITMO has very little bearing, if any on our ability to prevent another attack. I think the recent foiled attempt in NY is just a perfect example.

 

[Godspeed]

Obama has not done anything drastically different in the last 100 days that has significantly changed US security posture.

The President declassified documents outlining the techniques used by US intelligence officials to extract information from terrorists. Furthermore, he detested and shut down a major US military base that held key personnel directly linked to active terroist organizations.

He's also threatened criminalizing the previous administration for their policy in pursuing this war. I think it's safe to say that the US has significantly changed its security posture.

GITMO has very little bearing, if any on our ability to prevent another attack.

I'd bet anything that you are DEAD wrong here. If half of what Cheney says is true, the information extracted from GITMO detainees by CIA personnel has saved thousands upon thousands of American lives. I am waiting for this administration to declassify the report in its ENTIRETY stating exactly what attacks were thwarted as a direct result of these techniques used in GITMO.

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

How many wars in our young history ended with unconditional surrender? Aside from Japan in WWII, I don't think there have been any. The majority of peace terms have been accompanied by negotiations, even if they are a bit one-sided.

Since this is unlike any war we've ever been engaged in (not having a defined enemy), I think history has little bearing as far as unconditional surrenders go. Now your suggesting negotiation with terrorists to come to peace terms? What are they giving you nukes to smoke up at NY Prototype?

 

[Clux4]

The President declassified documents outlining the techniques used by US intelligence officials to extract information from terrorists. Furthermore, he detested and shut down a major US military base that held key personnel directly linked to active terroist organizations.

What techniques are you talking about? You really think there was something secret about those techniques. Or you think slamming a prisoner against a wall or sleep deprivation was something new. So you know, there aren't any torture options out there that is just US knowledge. And this is because there are not many options.

He's also threatened criminalizing the previous administration for their policy in pursuing this war. I think it's safe to say that the US has significantly changed its security posture.

Listen to yourself. So you believe the security posture is changed because the administration is considering legal actions. Where are you going with this? Care to explain this?

I'd bet anything that you are DEAD wrong here. If half of what Cheney says is true, the information extracted from GITMO detainees by CIA personnel has saved thousands upon thousands of American lives. I am waiting for this administration to declassify the report in its ENTIRETY stating exactly what attacks were thwarted as a direct result of these techniques used in GITMO.

Sad thing is they can say this all they want, but the lack of an attack does not necessarily prove that their policies prevented one. I'd wager that if they had a specific example we would have heard of it already since it would have ended the discussion pretty quickly.

Cheney needs to go and rest with his pacemaker in peace and forget about it. He is either a fool or he thinks he can get away with this claim.

 

[robav8r]

Can you articulate a few things they did to prevent this attack.

Yes - they maintained critical military & political alliances, ensured that the intelligince community and Department of Homeland security had every possible tool to detect, subvert, disrupt and ultimately prevent terrorist activities and associations.

And yes, they used every dirty trick in the book to extract intelligence from the insects that would rather slit your throat for your cheeseburger than give you the time of day.

Many on this board have actually been somewhere and been witness to the kind of individuals we are talking about here. Where have you been ???

 

[Spekkio]

Since this is unlike any war we've ever been engaged in (not having a defined enemy), I think history has little bearing as far as unconditional surrenders go.

It is? From 1945-1992, our enemies were "communists." Now they're "terrorists." Same thing, different day.

 

[Clux4]

Yes - they maintained critical military & political alliances, ensured that the intelligince community and Department of Homeland security had every possible tool to detect, subvert, disrupt and ultimately prevent terrorist activities and associations.

Oh really, did we stop maintaining critical military and political alliances, or stopped ensuring the IC and DHS had every possible tool? The only thing the new administration said was that they could not use torture. Don't try and make it seem their hands are tied. It is not.

And yes, they used every dirty trick in the book to extract intelligence from the insects that would rather slit your throat for your cheeseburger than give you the time of day.

How can you be sure this guy is giving you any accurate information. He is willing to die for allah and 40 virgins so what would you harsh treatment mean to him? Obviously, this makes sense.

Many on this board have actually been somewhere and been witness to the kind of individuals we are talking about here. Where have you been ???

What individuals are you talking about? Who cares where you have been, GITMO, Afghanistan, Iraq? Where you personally involved in the interrogation process? Did you collaborate the actionable intelligence you received from these guys?