Gaza

[Fog]

I wonder what our Malaysian and Indonesian partners would think of your assessment of their culture and economy.

You know damn well that (1) I was referring to the arab/persian Mideast, and that I was not referring to Pacific nations (that were converted with the Islamic sword). Why be such a prick ?

 

[squorch2]

Using my own words against me! My only weakness!

 

[Brett327]

You know damn well that (1) I was referring to the arab/persian Mideast, and that I was not referring to Pacific nations (that were converted with the Islamic sword). Why be such a prick ?

You ought to choose your words more carefully when condemning large swaths of civilization. So, by inference, you're saying that some Muslims are more civilized than others, right?

 

[jmcquate]

Iron Dome vid. It can put a shitload of iron in the sky

 

[Fog]

No, what I was saying is that the Islamic Mideast is a cauldron of hate & death with little chance of entering the 21st century in our lifetimes (with the exception of Turkey, which is now trending in the wrong direction). Israel has produced many times more Nobel Prize winners than the Islamic Mideast nations combined.

 

[Brett327]

No, what I was saying is that the Islamic Mideast is a cauldron of hate & death with little chance of entering the 21st century in our lifetimes (with the exception of Turkey, which is now trending in the wrong direction). Israel has produced many times more Nobel Prize winners than the Islamic Mideast nations combined.

I think where we probably disagree is in the "what do we do about it" department. Forgetting the whole "energy independence" argument (which is a bit of a red herring) how do you propose we deal with these "savages?"

 

[Fog]

I think where we probably disagree is in the "what do we do about it" department. Forgetting the whole "energy independence" argument (which is a bit of a red herring) how do you propose we deal with these "savages?"

As I said originally, leave 'em alone & let 'em kill each other till they're all gone. Let India, Japan & China keep the Straits of Hormuz open for their flow of oil. No more Americans need to die there. We can drill our own in Alaska & offshore - we just need to build some new refineries, which we haven't done in 30 years thanks to Greenies

 

[Brett327]

Fortress America. Roger that.

 

[illinijoe05]

As I said originally, leave 'em alone & let 'em kill each other till they're all gone. Let India, Japan & China keep the Straits of Hormuz open for their flow of oil. No more Americans need to die there. We can drill our own in Alaska & offshore - we just need to build some new refineries, which we haven't done in 30 years thanks to Greenies

You do realize that drilling more oil does not equal energy independence. Oil is a global commodity so even if we produced enough oil to satisfy our domestic demand the price would still be subject to global demand, unless you advocate a govt take over of big oil...which im sure you dont. Only way to truly be independent of foreign oil is to not need oil anymore.

 

[MasterBates]

Import tariff on non NAFTA oil.

Also a lot of things, like Natural Gas, and GTL make a lot more sense to produce domestically. Cheap NG here, and markets for the GTLs.

I'm currently working on getting things ready to go for GTL plant in Nigeria, and it took the spot price of Diesel and Gasoline to get where it is to make sense there, mostly due to transport costs, although partially due to the costs of dealing with the natives.

 

[Fog]

You do realize that drilling more oil does not equal energy independence. Oil is a global commodity so even if we produced enough oil to satisfy our domestic demand the price would still be subject to global demand, unless you advocate a govt take over of big oil...which im sure you dont. Only way to truly be independent of foreign oil is to not need oil anymore.

Hint: The point is not WHAT we pay for it, the point is WHERE we get it & our security in doing so. We now spend several hundred billion $$ per year importing crude from the Mideast, a certain percentage of which funds get re-cycled to terrorist groups. What rational nation would not prefer to be self-reliant for its hydrocarbon energy sources rather than import same from nations (Mideast, Venezuela) that dislike us and finance terrorism with our $$?

 

[scoober78]

We can drill our own in Alaska & offshore - we just need to build some new refineries, which we haven't done in 30 years thanks to Greenies

Wrong.

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=29&t=6

...and you're wrong about the reason too...

http://www.businessweek.com/article...ot-s-dot-became-the-china-of-refined-gasoline

The simple fact is, it's the market economy at work...that's right, the force that we need to "turn loose to unleash prosperity". Funny thing...corporations kinda like gas prices where they are. Odd, since they're raking in record profits.... On top of that, why build a refinery at tremendous cost when you can modernize an older refinery for a third of it, increase production gradually and keep the price where it is? Further, because they are so expensive to build, new refineries have significant (20-50 year) recovery windows before they earn profit. As US consumption continues to decrease due to conversion to alternate fuel sources (natural gas etc...) and increases in efficiency, energy companies simply do not see that investment getting returned...but sure, we can blame it on the environmental lobby...

Don't take my word for it though...

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom...er/us_er_Whatsnextforrefiners_8708_111210.pdf

 

[squorch2]

Lotsa luck putting in protective tariffs without getting into a trade war.

 

[Fog]

Wrong.

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=29&t=6

...and you're wrong about the reason too...

http://www.businessweek.com/article...ot-s-dot-became-the-china-of-refined-gasoline

The simple fact is, it's the market economy at work...that's right, the force that we need to "turn loose to unleash prosperity". Funny thing...corporations kinda like gas prices where they are. Odd, since they're raking in record profits.... On top of that, why build a refinery at tremendous cost when you can modernize an older refinery for a third of it, increase production gradually and keep the price where it is? Further, because they are so expensive to build, new refineries have significant (20-50 year) recovery windows before they earn profit. As US consumption continues to decrease due to conversion to alternate fuel sources (natural gas etc...) and increases in efficiency, energy companies simply do not see that investment getting returned...but sure, we can blame it on the environmental lobby...

Don't take my word for it though...

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedStates/Local Assets/Documents/Energy_us_er/us_er_Whatsnextforrefiners_8708_111210.pdf

Thanks for making my points for me:
(a) the Darco Refinery in Douglas, WY (2008) produces only 4000bbl/day - the last major refinery (Garyville, LA w/ 450,000bbl/day output) was built in 1977;
(b) the USA in 2011 still imported over 2million bbl/day from Saudi Arabia & Venezuela - @ $80/bbl that's $160MM/day X 365 days is a big fucking number.

Some of you guys are just too damn smart for your own smugness. I much prefer to make American & Canadian producers wealthy. And don't hold your breath until wind & solar make money for anyone other than BO's buddies & donors.

 

[jmcquate]

The current situation isn’t about oil it’s about Israel. The dictators in Egypt, Syria and Jordan tried to wipe them of the map militarily but that didn’t turn out so well and they learned to tolerate its existence. Now that Mubarak is gone and the Brotherhood is in charge, there’s nothing stopping the crazies in Gaza from starting a war. The chinless fool in Syria isn’t far behind and then there will be nothing stopping the crazies in Lebanon from following suit. The White House is going to have to make a decision soon about who’s side we’re on and to what extent.