Ground Jobs

[lance]

So I was reading the thread LIFESTYLES, and I started thinking about gound jobs. I really have no clue about what the different ground jobs are or how you are assigned to accomplish them.

Can anybody WITH EXPERIENCE elborate on that for me. How are they assigned? What are the best ones (in your opinion)? How often do you get to do something different.

Thanks fellas.

 

[Brett327]

So I was reading the thread LIFESTYLES, and I started thinking about gound jobs. I really have no clue about what the different ground jobs are or how you are assigned to accomplish them.

Can anybody WITH EXPERIENCE elborate on that for me. How are they assigned? What are the best ones (in your opinion)? How often do you get to do something different.

Thanks fellas.

Well, there are a bunch of major and minor jobs, so I won't try to list them all, but your front office assisted by the DHs will decide what your jobs will be. This will be based primarily on your seniority and past performance. Generally when you're new, your jobs will be the less difficult and time consuming ones to facilitate you getting up to speed in the A/C. You'll probably keep your jobs from between 9-12 months. Most people, including myself will tell you that being a Maint. DIVO is the most rewarding job. Additionally, doing one of the higher level jobs in Ops like AOPS or Training O will make you learn a lot about the important big picture details that really make a squadron work. Of course, the ultimate JO job is being the SWO (not to be confused with those guys who wear sweaters).

Brett

 

[Gatordev]

I'm with Brett on this one. If you truly engage and do the job you should be doing, the maitenance Divo job is a lot of work, but it's incredibly rewarding. Becoming an FCP on top of that is even more so, because you learn even more about your aircraft than what Natops says as well as spending a lot of time with the real technical experts, the maintenance chiefs. You can learn a ton just by sitting at the maintenance control desk and watch how they do business (maintenance or otherwise).

As for Ops jobs, I'm glad I never had to go up there, no matter how important their job is. Besides, I'd never admit to them how important their job is.

 

[Brett327]

Becoming an FCP on top of that is even more so

Yeah, plus you get to do a bunch of b!tchin' VATS runs. Did I ever tell you the story of how we flew a bird through an entire phase cycle logging nothing but 2K2 time? This bird had been a HGR queen for over a year while we waited for Sikorsky to sh!t us a main transmission beam. As you can imagine, this poor thing had been broken down to parade rest, then gradually built back up again. Well, I was running the VATS when we first turned this thing up and the thing almost flipped over on its side. It was like something out of a movie. As soon as the rotor brake was released the thing started to shake violently from side to side. I was in the back screaming, "Turn it off, turn it off! For the love of God!" as both mainmounts were alternately coming off the ground. As it turns out, the rotor head has been assembled incorrectly and we lived to turn another day. Seriously though, this thing had so many issues (mostly vibes) that we flew it through a whole phase cycle before it was FMC. [/sea story threadjack]

Brett

 

[Gatordev]

Nice. That's impressive. I can't top that one, but I did have one of our cruise birds that would require some sort of vibe run at least once a month, and not necessarily because of a phase. Good old 53. A tribute to poor maintenance practices (before we got her, of course).

 

[A4sForever]

.....Generally when you're new, your jobs will be the less difficult and time consuming ones to facilitate you getting up to speed in the A/C. ....
Brett

Ground jobs. Generally, I would agree with Brett ... as I learned the folly of disagreeing with NFO/BN types a long, long time ago.

But ..... once in a while ... as a new-guy in the squadron ... you will be placed in a position where the "heavies" can look at you --- i.e., to see if you meet your advanced billing from the RAG and to see if you are "worth" their time and/or grooming.

I have personal experience with this phenomenon: when I reported to my first Fleet squadron, I was assigned the new-guy ground jobs of Communications Officer and Asst. Admin. Normally --- ho-hum , JO of JO billets. BUT, my desk was positioned immediately between the CO and XO's doors --- they could not look up and look out without seeing me sitting at my desk ... sweating .... evading their gaze .... sweating some more ....

That's why I became an LSO --- they couldn't see me at the end of the runway .... :icon_wink

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Of course, the ultimate JO job is being a SWO

I'm with Brett on this one.

I couldn't agree more!

 

[webmaster]

... as a new-guy in the squadron ... you will be placed in a position where the "heavies" can look at you --- i.e., to see if you meet your advanced billing from the RAG and to see if you are "worth" their time and/or grooming.

I think that is one of the important things to realize for JO, that whatever you do, your reputation (or lack thereof) is going to precede you.

 

[Bevo16]

In our squadron, new guy ground jobs are:

1st LT/PAO (Also includes MWR offcier and about 15 other titles)
ADP Officer (Owns all of the IT's and computers)
Training Officer
Ground Safety Officer
Legal Officer (PAIN)

Most guys stay in their 1st job for 9-13 months.

Second jobs are:

Schedule Officer
Aircrew Div-O (also helps out with writing the schedule)
Line Division Officer (you will own 50+ junior enlisted)
Aircraft Officer (owns 3 smaller maintenance divisions)

2nd or 3rd job:

Tactics Officer
Pers-O
Tactics Officer

Good jobs that you want to have going out the door:

NATOPS officer
QAO
Assistant Ops

 

[Brett327]

Good jobs that you want to have going out the door:

NATOPS officer
QAO
Assistant Ops

It's funny, having been in both communities, that in Prowler land, NATOPS and QAO are minor and undesireable JO jobs. I know in LAMPS that the QAO is like the uber-pilot who does most of the FCFs - not the case for Prowlers.

Brett

 

[fudog50]

CWO/LDO/1520 Ground jobs

Yes, I agree with you all from a 1310/1320 perspective, you need to get the Maintenance Div O ticket punched, absolutely.
Naval Aviation is unique from other services in that, as an Officer, you get an opportunity to lead sailors. That being said, as a branch or Div O in a squadron, you will be a "figure head", the Chief will actually be doing your job, but you have a leadership role. You will be the one the Skipper talks to about personnel and equipment issues in your division. Although ultimately, the LDO/CWO or even 1520 has already briefed him about everything. You see, the professional maintenance officers know everything about anything going on with your branch or division before you do, because it is our job. As a flyer with a collateral duty of Div O, you merely follow along with what the LDO/CWO/5120 and Chiefs are doing and report to the Skipper, and he already has asked us and been briefed by us, so it's merely a show for him to see if you really know whats going on in your division. And as previously stated, it is a lot of work just keeping up. We understand this, and try to teach you guys as much as possible in the short time (1 year or less) you are in our shops, that is our job. It is very smart to pay attention and learn as much as you can during that 1 year stint, from the LDO/CWO/1520 because it helps you when you might get the opportunity to get another ticket punched as the M.O. (Aviation Maintenance Officer) Dept Head job. Remember, the M.O. and OPS O will be the best Skippers further down the road. Any other questions feel free to contact me at: foodog130@yahoo.com

I'm with Brett on this one. If you truly engage and do the job you should be doing, the maitenance Divo job is a lot of work, but it's incredibly rewarding. Becoming an FCP on top of that is even more so, because you learn even more about your aircraft than what Natops says as well as spending a lot of time with the real technical experts, the maintenance chiefs. You can learn a ton just by sitting at the maintenance control desk and watch how they do business (maintenance or otherwise).

As for Ops jobs, I'm glad I never had to go up there, no matter how important their job is. Besides, I'd never admit to them how important their job is.

 

[HH-60H]

Naval Aviation is unique from other services in that, as an Officer, you get an opportunity to lead sailors.

What on earth does that mean? Army Platoon Leaders and Marine Platoon Commander's (all 2LT's btw) don't lead their soliders? Or SWO's don't? Your statement just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Brett327]

Remember, the M.O. and OPS O will be the best Skippers further down the road.

They wont be the best, they'll be the only skippers. No DH screens for command without getting their ticket punched in one of those two billets. I can't say that I agree with much of what you have to say. Honestly, in a busy squadron, the AMO and MMCO concern themselves very little with the minutiae of any one division or personnel management. While I do agree that there might be an initially steep learning curve for a new DIVO, the notion that he's just a figurehead who lets his CPO do the real work doesn't really reflect the reality of the fleet.

Brett

 

[The Stinkster]

I guess that each community is different to a certain degree. In the Warpig land, you start out as a branch O down in maint or in one of many truly exciting admin jobs upstairs. (TAC Pubs O anyone?) From there, your performance in and out of the aircraft is gauged and you move on to a Mid-level job like GSO, skeds, stuff like like. My memory is a little foggy on those jobs so I don't fully remember all that are available. After that you are looking at being the Division officer for a maint div. Good job if you can get it. For some this will be their last job, and for some not. Some may never have that job. Anyway, if you get lucky and make IP, which is tough, then you get the shot at the "big four" that are usually your top guys in ranking jobs: Pilot Training Officer (runs upgrade training, IP type), Pilot NATOPS (obvious responsibilty....one of these guys is always #1, the other #2 ), QAO, and ASO. There may be some variation and exceptions squadron to squadron adn the like, but for the most part that is it. I tell guys heading out to the fleet all the time that the way to make a name for yourself and set yourself up for the jobs that you want and career path you want is to hit the groung running out there. DITCH THE FLIGHT SCHOOL MENTALITY. Too many guys show up to the squadron still acting as if they were in flight school....I come in when I have to fly, and leave when I am done. That is fine if that is what you want, but your jobs and reputation in the community will reflect that, as will your ranking at the end of your tour and your options to follow. You want to set yourself apart.......GO TO WORK. Remember that you are an officer first and aviator second. The flying is the fun part, but you will spend more time working on officership and your ground job and studying and getting qualled if you are doing it right. Sorry....got on a rant. Anyway, I think that you have seen a pretty clear picture of all the communities now.......good luck!

 

[Brett327]

Anyway, if you get lucky and make IP

Funny side note as evidence of the diversity in different communities. In Prowler land (and I assume in all of TACAIR), there is no such animal as IP. There are two facets of the upgrading process. You'll have a couple guys who are NATOPS instructors that are qualified by the RAG. In the front seat, the ECMO NATOPS I will give checkrides to the pilots and vice versa (backseat it's ECMO to ECMO - two separate NATOPS quals). For you VP types, could you imagine your TACCO sitting in the right seat to give you your checkride? Anyway, for the tactics side, there will be at least one ACTC Level V tactics instructor who has been through the weapons school in each squadron. He will manage aircrew tactics training and is the only one who can give you a level III MC check. The squadron designates mission instructors who can sign off individual upgrading events. From my time in VP, I know this is completely different - posting to give folks some perspective on the diversity of ways in which we make aviators in the fleet.

Brett