Hawkeyes!

[A4sForever]

I was wondering what the "typical" E-2C cruise is like for a JO pilot ....... Is LSO an option, if so can you fully qualify, go on to CAG Paddles etc.? .......Is it fun to fly, or is it more like "I swear, if I have to fly in one more circle I'm going to shoot myself in the face"? ....... Hard to trap, fun to trap? ......Is instructing at a Jet VT a viable option, or will you hear "I wouldn't hold my breath"? .....

I have an input on all of these .... but my input is dated. I'll let some other guys chime in with current opinion --- we'll see if it has changed. Then I'll drop my $20 worth ..... because I care.

But you know ....... (see signature - follows)

 

[Goober]

It's much like any other JO tour - eat, sleep, fly, check on your folks. LSO is absolutely an option, so if you've got the skills you likely to become one. You may or may not get a wing qual on your first tour - timing is everything, but I know several who have returned as a CAG paddles. Can't answer the part about flying in circles as I'm usually occupied while they're up front reading porn, but remember to keep the turns as flat as possible or expeditiously executed "Bat-turns" - you'll make friends w/ the NFO's if you do. Aside from that, you'll need a pilot to answer the landing questions, although it's remarkably similar to the COD so kmac or bunk might be able to answer that one for you. I have two former squadronmates teaching in T-45s right now. Hope this helped.

 

[HooverPilot]

Ok, I am just transitioning to the E-2/C-2 community, so I don't have the "in the E-2 squadron" experience, but I've done 2 cruises in S-3's hanging out with these guys and am in the E2/C2 RAG now, so I'll answer as much as I can.

The E-2 guys do get plenty of flight time. More than the hornets, less than the helo's and S-3's. The difference is that the E-2 guys get some of their flight time as copilots so they don't get as much left seat time. This requires strong managment of flight time by Ops to keep everyone in night qual, etc.

As for LSO, there are lots of E-2 LSO's out there. In 2 cruises, 3 of 4 CAG Paddles were E-2 guys. Not necc'y the rule, but the opportunity is there. There has even been C-2 CAG paddles, but that is a difficult path for a COD guy.

The COD is the 3rd Carrier aircraft that I've flown in the Navy and it will be the most challenging of them all to land on the boat. With the T-45 and the S-3 both being jets, you forget how to use the rudders. If you don't use the rudders correctly in the E-2/C-2, you will be so far behind in controlling the aircraft, you will not get aboard. The aircraft requires true stick and rudder skills to fly. Once you get the rudders under control, now you need to focus on centerline. The 80' wingspan of the airplane is almost double that of a Hornet and Paddles will not tolerate you not being on centerline. No you are not taking these aircraft into the merge, but the challenge is trying to fly this aircraft well.

The E-2 pilots do not love staying on station during a mission, but they are also involved in the mission. They can and do assist the NFO's during high workload times. Once the mission is over, I have found more than 1 E-2 down at 200' doing some SSC until recovery. These guys do manage to have some fun.

As for being a jet VT instructor, yes the opportunity is there. There are several E-2 guys in Kingsville and Meridian.

Ok A4's, I'm interested to hear what you have to say about this as well!

 

[Steve Wilkins]

I have an input on all of these .... but my input is dated.

It's not the input that's dated. :icon_smil

 

[A4sForever]

It's not the input that's dated.

I weep for your SWO soul .... assuming I can find it.

 

[Fly Navy]

I weep for your SWO soul .... assuming I can find it.

LOL

 

[Pcola04/30]

SWO soul...oxymoron. StabStabLookStab. I keed I keed

 

[bunk22]

There has even been C-2 CAG paddles, but that is a difficult path for a COD guy.

The C-2 CAG paddles was also AIRPAC paddles and is our current XO. I would say it would be near impossible for another C-2 CAG paddles to come about. COD's no longer fly nights and I'm pretty sure that was the reason COD types were able to gain their LSO quals. I got my squadron qual back in 99 only after waving both work-ups and the entire cruise. At the time, all west coast COD's flew day/night and stayed on the boat during the entire cruise. Now days it's very difficult to earn even your sqaudron qual and if so, that will be about it. Of course, it's easy for E-2 types to progress and become CAG paddles and beyond.

 

[A4sForever]

Just my $20 worth .....The way it used to be (big disclaimer-- I know NOTHING of today):

JO tour: Lots of right seat time (obviously) --- but how many traps in YOUR logbook, Sonny ???

LSO qual: Squadron ONLY -- definitely NOT Wing, unless they're giving them away these days. You can ONLY go on to CAG staff as an LSO if you're good --- not because you "want" to --- only the best get it. You will have a hard time qualifying in the jets day/night .... again, unless they are giving them away these days. In the old days, you would be HARD PRESSED to qualify as a CAG LSO in an all-jet AirWing as a prop/turbo-prop LSO --- you figure it out. It ain't hard ..... but today we are more caring and sharing and sensitive to eveyone's needs. Observation: LSO is the GREATEST job in Naval Aviation for a JO .... if you're good --- everyone will know and you get to know all the pilots in the AirWing. Conversely .... if you're not good --- everyone will also know so pay attention and get out early .....

Fun? It's all relative. It's a VERY important job --- I always said in a War at Sea scenario with the Ruskies some LTJG NFO in the back of the Hummer would win or lose the battle. But "rewarding" as a JO Aviator??? --- It was not in my AirWing(s) by the reports of the pilots .... sorry --- it's just the nature of the beast.

Hard to trap? No .... but hard(er) to do well than one might expect (approach speed, multi-crew, etc.). Hummer drivers never got into the "Top 10" in my AirWings. Maybe some prejudice associated there --- I don't think I did it as I just graded 'em as they flew 'em --- "Top 10" was only calculated at the end of the cruise.

Jet instructor/jet transition is a viable option .... one guy in my first AirWing did just that -- when it was much harder to do than today -- and is now relaxing on his days off in San Diego and commuting to work as a 747 Captain .....

What is this preoccupation with "jets" anyway ?? .... I thought "jets" were for kids .....

 

[bunk22]

There are quite a few "Top Ten" and "Top Nugget" E-2 pilots now days along with a few E-2 "Top Hook" squadrons. VAW-116 won it at least once in 99 on our WESTPAC. Even two different COD dets took the "Top Hook" award when we flew nights back in the late 90's early 00's. I was at VRC-30 at the time and heard the pointy nose types were not happy. Afterall, how could lowly prop pilots/trash haulers outfly their modern day, high-tech, high-speed, low drag fighter planes and pilots? Had nothing to do with today's touchy feely navy, those COD drivers simply could fly the ball, day/night, good weather or bad. Our XO flew Tomcats during his CAG paddles tour. His best line period in the Turkey was a 4.0 while his best in the C-2 was a 3.6. He sums it up best as deploying the Hornet or Tomcat as a weapon system is the hard part, bringing it onboard the ship is the easy part.

As far as waving, if you can wave an E-2 or C-2, waving the jets is simple. That's why hummer drivers become CAG paddles.

 

[A4sForever]

As far as waving, if you can wave an E-2 or C-2, waving the jets is simple......

Sorry, bunk .... I love 'ya nowdays -- but that ain't the way it works. Never has been .... and never will be unless, of course, "someone" is giving LSO quals away today (and I suspect there is more truth to that than I would like to consider). BITD, to qualify in the AirWing in ALL aircraft as a Wing LSO ( and that's the goal -- the name of the game) you have to observe /wave/control lliterally THOUSANDS of passes -- ship and shore -- it's tough to do. It's tough to get the deck time. Jets are ALWAYS the last qual --- most certainly not the first. But then .... my time is over .... perhaps are there "new rules" for qualifying LSO's today .... ???

I know you've heard of waving F-8's, F-4's, RA-5's, A-4's, A-7's, A-6's, EA-6's, C-1's, A-3's, MAW Fleet Marines who had never CQ'ed before and all the rest --- day/night, ship and shore .... even Stoof's with the infamous no-wind "blue-water" cut. We had to qualify in a multitude of aircraft. I even got to fly most of them.

The result: the E-2/C-2 was our FIRST shipboard qual --- Certainly not the last. That was because it was the "easiest" (a very relative term as used herein) for the new and upcoming LSO to handle -- no disparagement on the E-2/C-2 aircraft or flight crews --- just the reality of the platform.

It would suprise me if it were any different today .....

(edit): I don't want to talk about Hummers anymore .... I feel so dirty ....

 

[kmac]

A4s,
What makes you say the E2/C2 was the easiest to handle for the new paddles? Was it because of the size and amount of visible corrections going on? Just curious, that's all.

 

[A4sForever]

A4s,
What makes you say the E2/C2 was the easiest to handle for the new paddles? Was it because of the size and amount of visible corrections going on? Just curious, that's all.

You're askin' me to remember specifics from 30 years ago .... O.K., here we go. Actually, they were among the most "stable" on the ball/in the groove; plus a little slower. A testament to the E-2/C-2 drivers and/or the airplane??? But then, they never got "Top 10" status in 3 cruises + workups .... go figure. Lots of (OK) passes .......

The visual was certainly maximized with big wings and the "roof" provided good visual cues to changing attitudes .... (appology to Jimmy Buffett)

I/we never let line-up escape and fortunately we never had any big "excursions" in close. The only thing that we were REALLY concerned about was the E-2 getting "in the bucket" and trying to drive out of a low/slow condition in close/at the ramp .... good LSO' and pilot "teams" stay ahead of that.

 

[ChuckMK23]

OK now I'm curious...

1. What's the left seat / right seat progression like in the E2/C2 community? Do you simply take turns? I'm assuming only the left seat guy does the actual launch and traps on the boat...

2. Does the aircraft commander always have the left seat? How does a nugget get qualed then?

3. Do nuggets constantly get no real flight time?

Must be a little demoralizing - after taking T-45's to the boat solo as an SNA then having very little autonomy as a squadron aviator...

How does it all work?

 

[Blutonski816]

Must be a little demoralizing - after taking T-45's to the boat solo as an SNA then having very little autonomy as a squadron aviator...

That's what I've been wondering. To go from a little T-45 for quals on the boat to an big ole E-2/C-2 must be the weirdest thing when comparing handling characteristics.
Plus, it's probably the biggest cock tease for any guy who got into Primary hoping he'd get jets.
You'd think there'd an aircraft with similar handling characteristics for a stud to trap in before he went to the RAG.

just my .02