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Hawkeyes!

B

Blutonski816

Guest
I'm by no means knocking 'em... I just think its the strangest thing to get selected for E-2/C-2 and then hear that after Int/Adv props you'll have to qual on at Goshawk before the RAG because it's the only A/C that an SNA can qual in before he can move on to anything else.
Since the navy thinks that E-2 and C-2s have enough in common to put both RAGs in the same squadron, I'd think that one could qual in the C-2 before he gets to do so in the hummer (if they are moving on to Hummers)... But then again when you see the price tag of a T-45 vs a C-2 I guess there is no other option...
 

kmac

Coffee Drinker
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Chuck-
1/2. There's no left-seat/right-seat progression. One day the nugget is in the left, the next he's in the right. The way my det is doing it is whoever had the last trap between the two guys flying gets the right seat. That way we stay current. Some A/Cs like to swap seats on deck whereas some stay in the same seat all day. It just depends.
3. I have more flight time than my OIC (by about 40 hours) and just about the same as the two senior LT's. The two junior LT's are behind me by about 8 hours. For the most part our scheduling is done so that the guy who is most behind gets the longer flight (it's almost rare to go just to the boat and back in a single day).
There are the long days where you wish you by yourself, and then there are the days you thank God there's someone else there. I think flying with a crew is a much bigger challenge than flying solo (first had that thought flying the 44 after the 34). I hope my description answers your question about the autonomy of a new fleet guy.

Blutonski-
The only teasing my cock gets is when I'm on shore at a bar with the ladies. Ok I lie, girls don't talk to me. As far as selecting jets go, yes I was disappointed to select E2/C2 pipeline. Go forward 2 years and I'm sooooooo incredibly happy I did. Think about it, I'm on shore typing this, on deployment, and about to go meet some friends for a drink. Did I mention per diem?
I think it's no weirder for the transition from a T-45 to the COD as it is from the T-34 to the 45. It's like baby steps. Behind the boat, it's going from the clown jet into the big leagues. If you went with an aircraft that had "similiar handling characterstics" as the E2 or C2, you'd have a TON of DQs and maybe even Mishaps. (There's only so much an IP can do to save a student, ask Bunk). So there's my defense of the 45. Cheers.
 

kmac

Coffee Drinker
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Blutonski816 said:
I'd think that one could qual in the C-2 before he gets to do so in the hummer

So wait, the C-2 is a stepping stone on the path to E-2s? Ahh I'm enlightened, thanks!
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Nice response KMAC - thank you for the gouge!

By the way - I would trade my 23rd floor office and starbucks and cocktails at 4pm for being forward deployed and sliders in the dirty-shirt in a heartbeat.

Being able to chat about this stuf during the workday is what keeps me sane somedays :)
 

HooverPilot

CODPilot
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Ok, I don't know anything about you & Your profile doesn't allude to any previous military aviation experience, so I'll assume that you have not been associated with Military aviation before and are trying to learn. Fair enough.

Blutonski816 said:
That's what I've been wondering. To go from a little T-45 for quals on the boat to an big ole E-2/C-2 must be the weirdest thing when comparing handling characteristics.

It's no different than going from the T-45 to an S-3 or EA6-B. The T-45 isn't used to train for a specific aircraft at the boat, but is used to train an aviator to fly at the boat. The aircraft specific training happens at the FRS. In that regard, the T-45 is an approriate platform for what it is used for. Remember, people getting their initial qual in the T-45 are doing it for the first time and are solo, why make it that much harder by putting them in a much more difficult aircraft to fly? Like KMAC said, you would just get more mishaps.

Blutonski816 said:
You'd think there'd an aircraft with similar handling characteristics for a stud to trap in before he went to the RAG.

Maybe we should fly our fleet aircraft in advanced then? Heck, skip advanced and go straight to the FRS! C'mon, your ignorance is showing. Flight school trains in steps. Start with the T-34, go to an intermediate aircraft, and then move on to your fleet aircraft. Baby steps! P-3 guys train in C-12's and T-44's & Helo guys train in TH-57's and then move up. No one starts in the complex aircraft that they end up in, they work their way up to it!

Blutonski816 said:
Plus, it's probably the biggest cock tease for any guy who got into Primary hoping he'd get jets.

I went through the entire jet program, did 2 cruises in a jet and have now transitioned to the C-2 (by choice). Does that make me the moron who fell for the tease? Where do the guys who select helo's out of primary rank on the tease scale? What about the P-3 guys?



By the way, your calling the C-2 a stepping stone to the E-2 is just wrong.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Hoover - are you guys on the Sea Wall there at Chambers or at one of the LP hangers now?

Do the hangers and squadron spaces still suck?
 

HooverPilot

CODPilot
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
New hangars in the LP area. Not too bad, the spaces in JAX for the S-3's were much worse!
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
HooverPilot said:
New hangars in the LP area. Not too bad, the spaces in JAX for the S-3's were much worse!

Hopefully LP-4 has long since been bulldozed! The worse thing was finding critters in your dry suit after taking it out of storage! Oh and I am sure the lead paint chips and asbestos helped too!
 

squeeze

Retired Harrier Dude
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Blutonski816 said:
I'm by no means knocking 'em... I just think its the strangest thing to get selected for E-2/C-2 and then hear that after Int/Adv props you'll have to qual on at Goshawk before the RAG because it's the only A/C that an SNA can qual in before he can move on to anything else.
Since the navy thinks that E-2 and C-2s have enough in common to put both RAGs in the same squadron, I'd think that one could qual in the C-2 before he gets to do so in the hummer (if they are moving on to Hummers)... But then again when you see the price tag of a T-45 vs a C-2 I guess there is no other option...

this is the point where you stop talking and let those who have BTDT talk, ok?
 

Goober

Professional Javelin Catcher
None
^When you consider that number-wise T-45s are a dime a dozen, there's a lot better use for a C-2 than filling up the RAG as "E-2 trainers", like hauling stuff to the boat. With only two fleet squadrons to det to the entire fleet, the COD's a precious commodity, esp. now that VRC-50 and their US-3s are gone = that much more work to do. If memory serves right Bunk/Kmac, don't you guys have some flights in the T-birds at 120 since they're Group 0s w/-425 engines and have the same performance? If so, how's that for turnabout - using E-2s to train COD guys...go figure.
 

HooverPilot

CODPilot
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Goober said:
^When you consider that number-wise T-45s are a dime a dozen, there's a lot better use for a C-2 than filling up the RAG as "E-2 trainers", like hauling stuff to the boat. With only two fleet squadrons to det to the entire fleet, the COD's a precious commodity, esp. now that VRC-50 and their US-3s are gone = that much more work to do. If memory serves right Bunk/Kmac, don't you guys have some flights in the T-birds at 120 since they're Group 0s w/-425 engines and have the same performance? If so, how's that for turnabout - using E-2s to train COD guys...go figure.

Training today for COD guys is only done in COD's & E-2 bubba's in E-2's. The last Group 0 I saw was being broken up for scrap w/an I-beam over at Oceana.

I do second the notion that the C-2's are too few for our fleet. Hopefully in the not too distant future we will start to hear about real planning for the C-2B. Of course I'm not gonna hold my breath.

On a side note, I did a sim the other day with a TPS kind of guy who said that there are some great upgrades coming for the C-2. Bunk posted the 8 blade pictures recently and that should be flying in a few months, but the Comm/Nav/Instrument upgrades are gonna be pretty sweet.
 

Goober

Professional Javelin Catcher
None
HooverPilot said:
The last Group 0 I saw was being broken up for scrap w/an I-beam over at Oceana.

<Sniff>...sad, sad day...bring on the D models! Faster dammit! (or DD models for that matter)!
 

bunk22

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
A4sForever said:
Sorry, bunk .... I love 'ya nowdays -- but that ain't the way it works. Never has been .... and never will be unless, of course, "someone" is giving LSO quals away today (and I suspect there is more truth to that than I would like to consider). ;) BITD, to qualify in the AirWing in ALL aircraft as a Wing LSO ( and that's the goal -- the name of the game) you have to observe /wave/control lliterally THOUSANDS of passes -- ship and shore -- it's tough to do. It's tough to get the deck time. Jets are ALWAYS the last qual --- most certainly not the first. But then .... my time is over .... perhaps are there "new rules" for qualifying LSO's today .... ??? :)

I know you've heard of waving F-8's, F-4's, RA-5's, A-4's, A-7's, A-6's, EA-6's, C-1's, A-3's, MAW Fleet Marines who had never CQ'ed before and all the rest --- day/night, ship and shore .... even Stoof's with the infamous no-wind "blue-water" cut. We had to qualify in a multitude of aircraft. I even got to fly most of them.

The result: the E-2/C-2 was our FIRST shipboard qual --- Certainly not the last. That was because it was the "easiest" (a very relative term as used herein) for the new and upcoming LSO to handle -- no disparagement on the E-2/C-2 aircraft or flight crews --- just the reality of the platform.

It would suprise me if it were any different today .....

(edit): I don't want to talk about Hummers anymore .... I feel so dirty ....

In today's Navy, to earn an Airwing Qual, it takes waving two full cruises, including work-ups and passing the grade for the CAG paddles. Thus E-2 pilots can earn their Airwing qual, go to the FRS, earn their training qual and then on to CAG LSO positions. Like I said, AIRPAC paddles three years ago was a COD pilot, our current XO.

I waved all my first work-ups, first cruise and half of my second cruise. I concure with most that if you don't fly at night, shouldn't wave at night. No credibility in that department. That's why I stopped waving, we stopped flying to the boat at night. With my limited squadron qual experience, the jets, F-14's, 18's, EA-6's and S-3's were easier to wave aboard than the props. I waved all of them for 8 months, every 4th day, day and night, good weather and bad. Things have changed in today's Navy. I have no doubt F-8's or A-3's or RA-5's or whatever was difficult to not only bring aboard but bring them down as well. The fast movers are easier to grade, see movement and make the calls. Though they do move much faster on speed and that took time to get used to. Normally, all the jets are brought in first, then the E-2, C-2 and then tanker.

I believe the Tomcat is probably the toughest of today's jets to bring onboard and like I said, our XO with traps in C-2's, E-2's and Tomcats knows the difference between the three hardest to bring aboard and the the Tomcat is easier than the props. He had a 4.0 line period in the tomcat but couldn't get that in the COD or E-2. Easier to bring onboard, easier to wave. Just the way it is.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
What's up with the C-2 not doing night traps? DOes the CV mysteriously no longer need logistics support at night?

Someone explain that please...
 
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