Nah, I'm sure ard was shot down over Vietnam, too...
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Highest possible rank right after OCS
- Thread starter ard
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Nah, I'm sure ard was shot down over Vietnam, too...
ard
New Member
If you've read the thread carefully, you would have noticed that I was not questioning anyone's service in particular (except for Brett's).
First, speaking sincerely, if you've got the best of intentions, then good luck. I think you're crazy, and up shit creek without a paddle, but good luck.
Second, think hard about getting used to this type of treatment, some of it will be locker room banter, but it could just as well be mean-spirited dickheadedness.
You are asking to be put at the bottom of a professional ladder. Some of the people you may work for may shit all over you for being more qualified than them. Others may shit on you just because you rub them the wrong way (like you've already managed to do). Or because they're just in a shitty mood. Not saying it's GOING to happen, but I've seen other who were successful in their professions join late, and get jaded real fast about being treated like children. (See Servicemembers acting like Idiots thread).
I am sympathetic to your situation and wish you the best, even in your attempt to try for a SEAL slot but you want to throttle it back a bit. This board is full of professional officers and even though some of the advice might be a bit harsh for your tastes it is from experience. It is also poor practice to mock some here for not having courage when haven't a clue what some have faced in combat, doubly so from someone who has already dropped out of one officer accession program. If I were you I would take a deep breath, take the advice given to you here under consideration and step away from the keyboard a bit.
ard
New Member
Thanks for your wise advice (I truly mean it), but as much as I like Ron Paul and Michael Scheuer, I guess my personality would've rubbed them the wrong way, too. It's OK if guys in here want to trump me. I'll have the last laugh, though.
ard
New Member
Advice well taken.
Ahh, the inevitable slide into oblivion. Ard, I understand that you just don't know what you're doing here or who you're dealing with. I know you're not getting the answers you wanted to hear, but you probably shouldn't start flaming the members of the fraternity you've decided to rush. That tactic isn't going to work out well for you. It's pretty funny to hear someone on the outside looking in call someone who has been in this business over 20 years a wanna be. Fucking hilarious.
You're being an idiot. You haven't taken the time to fill out your profile and you are seeking the advice and counsel of those that have walked the walk while displaying courage and enduring the many sacrifices that come from military service. Don't drop career desires like Navy SEAL and intel without expecting folks who have a LOT of military service to ask a question or two. And . . . don't flaunt your academic background and what you perceive are your academic/professional qualifications unless you educate the audience a bit more on who you are and what your true motivations are.
This may have been pointed out, but lost in the mayhem: if you go line officer there's no way you can be commissioned directly as anything higher than an O-1.
If you go through ODS (Officer Development School) to get commissioned as a Nuclear Power Instructor/Engineers, Medical Corps, Nurse Corps, Medical Service Corps, Judge Advocate General Corps and Dental Corps, it's possible to get a higher rank right away.
If you go through ODS (Officer Development School) to get commissioned as a Nuclear Power Instructor/Engineers, Medical Corps, Nurse Corps, Medical Service Corps, Judge Advocate General Corps and Dental Corps, it's possible to get a higher rank right away.
Something about this thread smells, I’m calling “Shenanigans”. A 38 year old tenured math prof wants to quit his job and become a SEAL?!? Then after a few posts explaining the obvious he ramps it up to questioning the service of commissioned officers, some who have been at war for 10 years? Really?
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
1. I never wanted to be a SEAL (ok, I did - but that was when I was 12)
2. You're right, I'm dumb and gutless. That's how I ended up as a combat proven helicopter pilot.
3. I'm not laughing at you, nor should you pity me. Why? Let's start with your courage comment. I had the courage to FINISH WHAT I STARTED at a service academy. You did not. Brains? Yup. You're fucking smart. You've got a PhD. And you're a teacher. You know the old addage? Those that can't do... Teach.
Spare me with how you're so fucking valuable. How so-an-so, a SEAL and umpty-frats, a Special Operator think you're the bee's knees. I'm here to tell you that their opinion means exactly jack, and shit. Why? Because in case you haven't noticed (in between studying, getting courageous papercuts from grading tests, and guffawing with your jerk-off professor friends over a frappucino in the lounge) there's this little thing called "sequestration" and even if that DOESN'T happen, something called a "post-war military". Those things are making it that "waivers" aren't exactly coming out of a Pez dispenser.
Oh, that's right. You're special. Here's your trophy.
Mew
Member
Ard. . . I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I'm operating on the assumption that you are a nice person who didn't quite think about the way some of the stuff you are saying could be read and since the internet doesn't give any tonality indicators I'm guessing you are not trying to come off as a brat who doesn't want to hear the answer to the question you asked.
So here is my advice
Be humble, there isn't a single person on these boards who doesn't want to serve their county that doesn't make you special that makes you par for the course around here. While you maybe the real deal and are a walking stud who screams *I* should be a SEAL in person, but keep in mind how many people are not. How many james bond/Capt America/spy/seal wannabes show up and expect to be treated as god's gift to the american military, obviously the people who have been around this board since the dawn of time are a little over it.
You are at the very start of the process to become an officer, many of these posters (Bret) included are already officers. *If* you get accepted, they will out rank you and you will be required to show them the respect their rank entitles them to regardless of what you think of them. Why on earth in a job interview would you think you get to be disrespectful of the hiring manager who will be your boss if you get the job?
I am very much of the opinion that if I'm lucky enough to get commissioned and those officers will be able to order me to jump, *before* I get in I should be asking them if they want two sugars or cream while I jump off what ever stupid cliff they think is a good idea.
You are here asking for advice and help, if a student were to walk into your office with the attitude that you have shown I doubt you would be falling all over your self to help them. While you clearly are an accomplished individual, that matters and at the same time it really doesn't.
Your first question was how can I skip to the head of the line, because what I choose to do in my civilian life is/was more important than what anyone else has chosen to do. While it might be true asking the way you have chosen to might rub people the wrong way and suggests that maybe HUMINT isn't going to be your calling. Had you said "okay guys this is my situation, and this is what I think my options are and this is what I want, can you give me advice or help me" I suspect it would have gone over a lot better.
You are clearly not the typical candidate and thats okay, I'm sure not either. In some ways that maybe what would make us a better candidate than someone else but you also have to be realistic. Maybe you will be the first SPECWAR guy to get a wavier over 30 but if you are going to try to buck the system which you clearly are and even 15 min of reading around would have told you that, showing up with your hat in hand asking for help will always work much better than showing up with your pants down trying to measure.
BUDS is about getting shit on and then smiling and asking for more (and being crazy enough to want it). If you can't deal with this amount of crap it would be hard to have implicit faith you are going to want to deal with the "fun" that is BUDS
So here is my advice
Be humble, there isn't a single person on these boards who doesn't want to serve their county that doesn't make you special that makes you par for the course around here. While you maybe the real deal and are a walking stud who screams *I* should be a SEAL in person, but keep in mind how many people are not. How many james bond/Capt America/spy/seal wannabes show up and expect to be treated as god's gift to the american military, obviously the people who have been around this board since the dawn of time are a little over it.
You are at the very start of the process to become an officer, many of these posters (Bret) included are already officers. *If* you get accepted, they will out rank you and you will be required to show them the respect their rank entitles them to regardless of what you think of them. Why on earth in a job interview would you think you get to be disrespectful of the hiring manager who will be your boss if you get the job?
I am very much of the opinion that if I'm lucky enough to get commissioned and those officers will be able to order me to jump, *before* I get in I should be asking them if they want two sugars or cream while I jump off what ever stupid cliff they think is a good idea.
You are here asking for advice and help, if a student were to walk into your office with the attitude that you have shown I doubt you would be falling all over your self to help them. While you clearly are an accomplished individual, that matters and at the same time it really doesn't.
Your first question was how can I skip to the head of the line, because what I choose to do in my civilian life is/was more important than what anyone else has chosen to do. While it might be true asking the way you have chosen to might rub people the wrong way and suggests that maybe HUMINT isn't going to be your calling. Had you said "okay guys this is my situation, and this is what I think my options are and this is what I want, can you give me advice or help me" I suspect it would have gone over a lot better.
You are clearly not the typical candidate and thats okay, I'm sure not either. In some ways that maybe what would make us a better candidate than someone else but you also have to be realistic. Maybe you will be the first SPECWAR guy to get a wavier over 30 but if you are going to try to buck the system which you clearly are and even 15 min of reading around would have told you that, showing up with your hat in hand asking for help will always work much better than showing up with your pants down trying to measure.
BUDS is about getting shit on and then smiling and asking for more (and being crazy enough to want it). If you can't deal with this amount of crap it would be hard to have implicit faith you are going to want to deal with the "fun" that is BUDS
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