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Hot new helicopter/rotorcraft news

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I’ve always wondered why we need WTIs and NSIs to do essentially daytime FAM/CAL/INST when those talents would be far better served at the FRSs and VMX.
They don't. Obviously they need dudes that are strong players, with enough flight experience.

The reason it happens is that they are given the first bite of the apple from among the mover population (assuming they submitted an app). HMX takes who they want off the board, prior to resident PME boards (CCLEB/CPIB)..if that's what they're still called. There's no manpower process that really manages the distribution of those quals (at least when I was in). For example, these succession of boards could in theory pluck a community dry, leaving VMX and FRS's a little threadbare.

Which kind of sounds like what you were saying in previous posts about the current situation.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
I’ve always wondered why we need WTIs and NSIs to do essentially daytime FAM/CAL/INST when those talents would be far better served at the FRSs and VMX.
Put simply and harshly, because if you weren’t held in enough esteem by your OPSO and CO to get NSI, the institution won’t trust you to carry our nation’s senior leaders. It’s a signaling mechanism—just like how almost every white collar job requires a college degree even though they rarely directly require any knowledge gained in college. But, if you’re the kind of person who can study, you probably can handle an entry-level office job.

The FRSs have the NSFI qual to answer their training requirements for NS. I do agree that VMX should probably rate more WTIs to ensure the relevance of their opeval and to tie their work into MAWTS.
 
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JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Put simply and harshly, because if you weren’t held in enough esteem by your OPSO and CO to get NSI, the institution won’t trust you to carry our nation’s senior leaders. It’s a signaling mechanism—just like how almost every white collar job requires a college degree even though they rarely directly require any knowledge gained in college. But, if you’re the kind of person who can study, you probably can handle an entry-level office job.

The FRSs have the NSFI call to answer their training requirements for NS. I do agree that VMX should probably rate more WTIs to ensure the relevance of their opeval and to tie their work into MAWTS.
I think that's a little harsh (but you said that, didn't you?). Squadrons have only enough bandwidth to make so many NSI's, among other training requirements. I get your point, but as others have said, there's no need to be an NVG wizard with what they do.

Also, there's only a few dudes designated to sign for and fly the man. Their copilots need credible monkey skills for sure. None of them are Osprey dudes as far as I know.
 

Ventus

Weather Guesser
pilot
Hah. Not compared to the their peers. The vast majority of Marines who stay in the FMF and actually deploy in support of named operations in the air or on the ground gain more invaluable joint and combined experience at the tactical and operational levels - which is exceedingly more relevant to our primary Title 10 responsibilities. No one cares about how sexy HMX does its missions when they have zero relevance to FMF. The prestige of flying POTUS around is about the only value added to the Marines.

Most Army National Guard units could do this mission set. Let’s not act like it’s complicated. Its Day VFR patterns, alerts, canned flight routes, and overseas detachments with priority logistics and TRANSCOM support. You’d have to be a complete buffoon to mess that up.
True but they wouldn't look as good as the Marines in their Dress Blues when the president comes down the stairs for the salute. 😎
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
True but they wouldn't look as good as the Marines in their Dress Blues when the president comes down the stairs for the salute. 😎
The dude in the left seat probably needs a few FAM flights to learn how to stare out to his 90 sharply, while the man is embarking/disembarking. 😄
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Looks like the Thrasher got thrashed in a rough storm. Nothing that can’t be repaired but enough to be a Class A.

First the Gaza pier, now the Florida helipads. Where are all the METOC officers to conduct weather warfare against all this weather? The weather seems to be winning…
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
First the Gaza pier, now the Florida helipads. Where are all the METOC officers to conduct weather warfare against all this weather? The weather seems to be winning…
This sucks - definitely not a great situation. But likely some great lessons learned with this airframe likely won't ever happen again.
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
This sucks - definitely not a great situation. But likely some great lessons learned with this airframe likely won't ever happen again.
It’s happened before.

My $0.02, with the Tyndall F-22 disaster, the military has too much red tape and rules that some enterprising O4 couldn’t take the initiative to take a GPC, rent a bunch of flatbed trailers, hitch up the jets, find a few truck drivers/ jet maintainers to go along, and convoy them to Warner Robins or somewhere outside the hurricane zone. So the jets were left in place at a damage cost of X amount. The culture doesn’t allow for outside the box thinking and rule bending.
 

lowflier03

So no $hit there I was
pilot
This sucks - definitely not a great situation. But likely some great lessons learned with this airframe likely won't ever happen again.
It’s happened before.

The same thing happened in Milton the week I winged in 2005. A hailstorm came through and downed every aircraft not in a hangar or on CCX. They all needed replacement rotor blades, windscreens, and greenhouse glass. A few even needed new chin bubbles and had instrument panel damage.

I've seen H-60s knocked on their side in Norfolk.

This is not a new problem at all and will likely happen with increasing frequency as we deal with the effects stronger and more unpredictable storms due to climate change.
 

kejo

Well-Known Member
pilot
I was on the back porch for this one and watched it come in. Forecast was typical NW Florida for this time of year, what actually happened was way worse and caught everyone off guard. Nearly 80 knot peak gusts and watched very clear funnel cloud circulation start forming right over the field. Lots of lessons learned here but we’re digging out, like mentioned before all repairable damage.

Don’t care what your position on climate change is, it’s very obvious and an objective fact that this kind of thing is and will continue to happen more often.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
My $0.02, with the Tyndall F-22 disaster, the military has too much red tape and rules that some enterprising O4 couldn’t take the initiative to take a GPC, rent a bunch of flatbed trailers, hitch up the jets, find a few truck drivers/ jet maintainers to go along, and convoy them to Warner Robins or somewhere outside the hurricane zone. So the jets were left in place at a damage cost of X amount. The culture doesn’t allow for outside the box thinking and rule bending.

What you describe is a recipe for a disaster far worse than what happened at Tyndall.

F-22's aren't some used Hondas you can just throw on a car transporter a U-Haul trailer you can just hitch up to your truck, they require specialized handling equipment not just to transport long distances over land but it also takes significant planning and support as well. That includes everything from route planning to ensure they can physically fit along the route without hitting every telephone pole, stoplight and overpass along the way to pretty strict physical security requirements needed 24/7 for every single jet along with making sure the transport doesn't run out of gas to rest requirements for the personnel.

For all the lamentations about red tape and rules there is ample good reason for them in cases like this, so you don't have some bright idea fairies wrecking an F-22 in a ditch on I-65N while trying to get around all the other hurricane evacuees followed by folks taking Raptor souvenirs that end up on eBay 7 hours later.

By far the two best options for aircraft and ships is to physically get them out of the way if able or secure them where they are if not.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Trailering helos can take life off of the rotor head components.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
First the Gaza pier, now the Florida helipads. Where are all the METOC officers to conduct weather warfare against all this weather? The weather seems to be winning…
What the hell happened to Hurivac SOP's? I was at Pensacola when hurricane Frederick whipped through. As I recall every single orange and white aircraft was flown off. Good times for instructors. I think more Ensign-mobiles were damaged than aircraft at Whiting or mainside Pensacola. Do we not have enough instructors in the VTs to fly off the aircraft?
 

kejo

Well-Known Member
pilot
What the hell happened to Hurivac SOP's? I was at Pensacola when hurricane Frederick whipped through. As I recall every single orange and white aircraft was flown off. Good times for instructors. I think more Ensign-mobiles were damaged than aircraft at Whiting or mainside Pensacola. Do we not have enough instructors in the VTs to fly off the aircraft?
This was a fast moving storm that was more intense than forecast, not a slow moving tropical system with a week or more of forecast time.
 
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