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Uncle Fester

Uncle Fester

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phrogdriver said:
The last line is the key one.

The DDG requirement is what is killing any chance to do that. Your manned FVL designs don't fit, whether tiltrotor- or blender-based.

That leaves you with other helicopters, none of which represent big improvements (I don't know why people have stuck on S-92...it's not that great), or various H-60 SLEPS. Adding 5-40KIAS and a little more lift isn't exactly game-changing. There's little reason to absorb the EXORBITANT cost of a new design (not just the aircraft--training, spares, manning, basing, etc.) unless there's a huge leap. So if you want a manned platform that's DDG compatible, it's various flavors of H-60 all the way down.

You could commit to a large UAS to replace the R. That's probably the real solution, but a VTOL UAS that large is a good amount of time and money away. Given competing priorities, that's a ways off.

Lastly, you could split the fleet and have a big-deck aircraft and DDG aircraft. If you're on the big deck, a navalized FLRAA (for example) would work great. You could put the "C" back in CSAR and reach a long ways from Mother. It could also hunt small surface threats a lot better than F-18s.
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Could the MH-139/AW-139 maybe be a contender? At least it's a DoD POR now.
Image-1-MH-139A-Grey-Wolf-Helicopter.jpg
 
Gatordev

Gatordev

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phrogdriver said:
Lastly, you could split the fleet and have a big-deck aircraft and DDG aircraft. If you're on the big deck, a navalized FLRAA (for example) would work great. You could put the "C" back in CSAR and reach a long ways from Mother. It could also hunt small surface threats a lot better than F-18s.
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A limitation I see with that plan is when you have independent deployers. I know the bulk of our current strategy centers around the CSG, but there's a lot day-to-day independent steaming to meet the various requirements, too. If you have can't have the "more capable" asset nearby, you may end up with a total capability of something less than we have now.

I fear my wording is poor above, but hopefully it makes sense.

Uncle Fester said:
Could the MH-139/AW-139 maybe be a contender? At least it's a DoD POR now.
Click to expand...

South Korea tried that. They weren't very happy with the results. Look at what they're buying now.
 
SynixMan

SynixMan

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Llarry said:
Way smaller/less TO weight than a -60.

Bell has a partial answer: V-247 tilt-rotor UAS that they claim will fit Navy hangars. Based on the second photo, I'm skeptical. And re Army observation program, how about repurposed ex-Navy S-3s? <grin>View attachment 39914View attachment 39915
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I think people are underestimating the usefulness of manned platforms in ASW in particular. It’s not just a sensor platform. The unmanned sensors will give cueing, but dropping a torpedo is act of war stuff you don’t want to leave to an algorithm.
 
phrogdriver

phrogdriver

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Llarry said:
Way smaller/less TO weight than a -60.

Bell has a partial answer: V-247 tilt-rotor UAS that they claim will fit Navy hangars. Based on the second photo, I'm skeptical. And re Army observation program, how about repurposed ex-Navy S-3s? <grin>View attachment 39914View attachment 39915
Click to expand...
That mock-up is of the USMC MUX variant. It was later sized down for the USN Maritime Strike.
 
Gatordev

Gatordev

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SynixMan said:
I think people are underestimating the usefulness of manned platforms in ASW in particular. It’s not just a sensor platform. The unmanned sensors will give cueing, but dropping a torpedo is act of war stuff you don’t want to leave to an algorithm.
Click to expand...

I agree. There's some other elements of ASW that can be more visual, as well. Even as something as simple as losing GPS can lead to a potential mission failure but can be easily dealt with if someone is able to just look out the window. It's a much bigger deal if all you have is a soda straw to look through.
 
Flash

Flash

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Gatordev said:
I agree. There's some other elements of ASW that can be more visual, as well. Even as something as simple as losing GPS can lead to a potential mission failure but can be easily dealt with if someone is able to just look out the window. It's a much bigger deal if all you have is a soda straw to look through.
Click to expand...

A oft-repeated story I heard from older VP and VQ hands the crewmember who often found a sub was the FE, who was just looking out the windows.
 
Uncle Fester

Uncle Fester

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Gatordev said:
I agree. There's some other elements of ASW that can be more visual, as well. Even as something as simple as losing GPS can lead to a potential mission failure but can be easily dealt with if someone is able to just look out the window. It's a much bigger deal if all you have is a soda straw to look through.
Click to expand...
I don't know much about ASW, but the sheer lack of SA you have flying around a UAS is hard to grasp until you've had to do it. I could buy UAS as a bouy truck wingman for a -60 or something, maybe, and I think NGC was shopping that idea around for Fire Scout at one point.
 
R

Random8145

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Uncle Fester said:
I don't know much about ASW, but the sheer lack of SA you have flying around a UAS is hard to grasp until you've had to do it. I could buy UAS as a bouy truck wingman for a -60 or something, maybe, and I think NGC was shopping that idea around for Fire Scout at one point.
Click to expand...
Could they put cameras in all directions like these new luxury SUVs have, where you can look left, right, front, rear, etc...?
 
S

SteveHolt!!!

Well-Known Member
pilot
Uncle Fester said:
If you're willing to give up all the bandwidth you need for everything else...sure. Still wouldn't really improve SA all that much.
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I think sometimes there’s a belief that more sensors + processing/data fusion = more sa. There’s no real reason to believe that equation is really true. Hard to beat a human on station fusing inputs in their brain the old fashioned way and making independent evaluations and decisions.
 
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