NEWS If War Comes, Will the U.S. Navy Be Prepared?

[Random8145]

Biden I will give credit to if he is keeping the tariffs in place and being hard on the Chinese, but the rest of the political class has been, at least until Trump came along, far too soft on them.

While I don't have any hard proof to link to right now, I would also suspect because a lot of them have investments ($$$) tied into China and their business community constituents likely do as well.

 

[nodropinufaka]

It’s true though Re- DUIs. Some senior leaders take the zero defect stance on it. He isn’t wrong.

Was there not a whole discussion here recently about if someone received a DUI if their career can recover?

 

[Pags]

Hard to tell what parts of that piece was Lehman. While I respect him a lot, the piece paints a picture of an author that is pretty severely out of touch with reality. As Nittany mentions, nobody wants to live on base because living on base is lame... not because of some fundamental breakdown in service culture. Even bringing up DUIs in the "zero-defect" conversation is absurd - as though we're advocating leniency for the commission of other misdemeanor crimes for our service members? We're better than that. Finally, the lamentation over "up or out" needs to be shouldered by Congress, not individual services. Pretty sure that was the law of the land when Lehman was in office. If it was so onerous, why didn't he fix it in the 80s?

Not to paint a too rosy picture of what the people in our service face these days, as there are certainly some serious concerns and issues that remain to address, but this piece misses the mark on nearly every point.

All of this is stuff thats been beaten to death on this forum for almost two decades. It certainly sounds like nothing new under the sun.

 

[Brett327]

It’s true though Re- DUIs. Some senior leaders take the zero defect stance on it. He isn’t wrong.

Was there not a whole discussion here recently about if someone received a DUI if their career can recover?

A DUI is a criminal act, which can kill innocent people. What other serious crimes should officers be able to commit without negatively impacting their careers? Perhaps some cocaine use, or even some light sexual assault? Are those cool too, or do we too averse to the dreaded zero-defect boogeyman to care about disincentivizing criminal behavior in our officer corps?

 

[Python]

A DUI is a criminal act, which can kill innocent people. What other serious crimes should officers be able to commit without negatively impacting their careers? Perhaps some cocaine use, or even some light sexual assault? Are those cool too, or do we too averse to the dreaded zero-defect boogeyman to care about disincentivizing criminal behavior in our officer corps?

What about running a ship aground? Or being at fault for a class A mishap? Screwing up Evals? Getting FNAEBd for an instrument check expiring? “Defects” that aren’t criminally related. All of those could be recoverable, and the offender could be a great senior leader/officer….just as their zero-defect and risk averse counterparts.

 

[nodropinufaka]

A DUI is a criminal act, which can kill innocent people. What other serious crimes should officers be able to commit without negatively impacting their careers? Perhaps some cocaine use, or even some light sexual assault? Are those cool too, or do we too averse to the dreaded zero-defect boogeyman to care about disincentivizing criminal behavior in our officer corps?

A DUI is a misdemeanor offense.

Sexual Assault is not a misdemeanor and possession of cocaine isn’t either.

So those aren’t really fair comparisons.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

A DUI is a criminal act, which can kill innocent people. What other serious crimes should officers be able to commit without negatively impacting their careers? Perhaps some cocaine use, or even some light sexual assault? Are those cool too, or do we too averse to the dreaded zero-defect boogeyman to care about disincentivizing criminal behavior in our officer corps?

Are you saying that any Officer who gets a DUI should not be able to recover no matter what they do afterwards?

 

[Treetop Flyer]

What about running a ship aground? Or being at fault for a class A mishap? Screwing up Evals? Getting FNAEBd for an instrument check expiring? “Defects” that aren’t criminally related. All of those could be recoverable, and the offender could be a great senior leader/officer….just as their zero-defect and risk averse counterparts.

Do we know anyone who has actually gotten a FNAEB or FFPB for that? I always assumed it was a catch all for eliminating someone who won’t fly, like min FY flight time waivers.

 

[taxi1]

Are you saying that any Officer who gets a DUI should not be able to recover no matter what they do afterwards?

Rank at the time should definitely play a role. But they should expect to do some time in the wilderness.

 

[picklesuit]

I’ve seen people recover from a DUI, but they were the exception, not the rule…

 

[Brett327]

I'm not pro-zero defect, but using DUI as a talking point when bitching about zero-defect is not a great tactic. I think the surface folks should be much more like aviation when it comes to mishaps. I've seen most folks involved in a class A make it through the process with their careers intact, unless there is gross negligence, or a blatant failure to accept responsibility at one's FNAEB. I haven't seen a zero-defect issue with the other administrative things you listed.

 

[Brett327]

Are you saying that any Officer who gets a DUI should not be able to recover no matter what they do afterwards?

That's the defacto Navy policy.

 

[nodropinufaka]

I’ve seen people recover from a DUI, but they were the exception, not the rule…

Is that right?

I don’t think a DUI should end you. You def should get into some trouble but ending someone’s career for it depends on the circumstances.

How many times have we seen people go golfing and drink a few beers at the course then drive home?
Or how many people have had beers at the iBar and driven home?

All it takes is one cop on a power trip and you’re done for.

I think the DUI thing should be totality of circumstances. Blew a .06? Or did you blow a 0.19 and slam into a parked car of flip off the Coronado bridge and kill someone?

Those are two very different things.

 

[picklesuit]

Is that right?

I don’t think a DUI should end you. You def should get into some trouble but ending someone’s career for it depends on the circumstances.

How many times have we seen people go golfing and drink a few beers at the course then drive home?
Or how many people have had beers at the iBar and driven home?

All it takes is one cop on a power trip and you’re done for.

I think the DUI thing should be totality of circumstances. Blew a .06? Or did you blow a 0.19 and slam into a parked car of flip off the Coronado bridge and kill someone?

Those are two very different things.

We agree here. There is a difference between chugging home the next morning and getting riled up at the gate and blazing back from the bar at 0300 and crashing into the gate…

 

[Brett327]

A DUI is a misdemeanor offense.

Sexual Assault is not a misdemeanor and possession of cocaine isn’t either.

So those aren’t really fair comparisons.

Possession of a schedule I controlled substance is a misdemeanor, as are some lesser, 4th degree sexual assaults in many jurisdictions.