International Burn a Qu'ran Day

[craftingraptor]

If you download the ancient Persian versian your Kindle is holy--even if you can't read it.

It seems like endangering troops is some sort of treason--is there a loophole in the Constitution for that?

I think the phrase you are looking for is "national security." I'm just taking shots in the dark though.

"We have firmly made up our mind, but at the same time, we are definitely praying about it," Jones said.

I hope the praying helps deflect the IEDs. Seriously.

My biggest question, though not really fit for this thread, is how the heck do you solve the problem of the middle east? Not just Israel vs Pakistan. I mean the big picture of Islam extremists with grand plans to effect the world stage. I mean the guys with billions of dollars in their pocket from a prolific drug trade that is nearly impossible to stop and little concern for western (not just American) civilization. I'm pretty sure returning to the dark ages is a fantasy for these multi-billionaire islamic noodleheads. Why else would they oppose whole countries that have done so much for the world?

 

[Deleted member 24525]

I know how we can solve OUR problem in the middle east...get the FUCK OUT...and leave their own business to them... we should revert back to National DEfense and not try to save the world. when we unfuck our own country then we can think about helping other countries.


we will never be able to please everyone and we need to stop trying.

Our national debt is now a national security issue: how much of that debt has been spent on the wars:
http://ebird.osd.mil/ebfiles/e20100909774258.html: http://ebird.osd.mil/ebfiles/e20100905773828.html
ON Afghanistan
http://ebird.osd.mil/ebfiles/e20100909774260.html
...how much of THAT has been embezzled or just plain stolen and then the investigation of that stolen money is blocked?
http://ebird.osd.mil/ebfiles/e20100909774253.html

All but ONE of these articles is from today.

 

[craftingraptor]

I'm sure you've seen lots of this, but for a source to the above statement:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=8295405

We're hunting them right now, but they're not easy to track and they pop up as soon as we kill them off (it would seem).

 

[phrogpilot73]

Really?
you have never seen a group of Evangelicals yell 17 year old girls walking out of abortion clinics?
You have never seen them yell at people walking into bars?
You have never seen them spew hatred towards gays, Muslims, Jews?
Most are pro death penalty and anti Euthanasia. How is it okay to kill one group and not another? isn't Murder forbidden by that same bible?
The "Group" as an entity has become a political organization not a Religious one.

I tried to be subtle, but now I'm being directive. TheChief is an evangelical, and had you actually read the link I provided you would find out that 28% of this country identify themselves as evangelicals, as opposed to 26% Catholics.

Oh, and I have seen Catholics do all of the above as well. What did I say? Something about vocal minority? You'll zip it now - or I'll zip it for you.

 

[SWACQ]

Really?
you have never seen a group of Evangelicals yell 17 year old girls walking out of abortion clinics?
You have never seen them yell at people walking into bars?
You have never seen them spew hatred towards gays, Muslims, Jews?
Most are pro death penalty and anti Euthanasia. How is it okay to kill one group and not another? isn't Murder forbidden by that same bible?
The "Group" as an entity has become a political organization not a Religious one.

First of all, nobody is perfect. If you look for hypocrisy, rudeness, lying, cheating, etc, etc, etc among "Evangelicals", you will surely find it, because they are, like everybody else, fallable. If you want to throw darts at a group, I'm sure we could find equally ignorant and offensive statements or behaviors amongst athiests or those you selected, ie, 17 year olds, gays, Muslims, Jews, etc, etc.

Second, isn't your statement "I like South Park and dislike Evangelicals. (Evangelicals are crueler and more judgemental than South Park)" painted with the same brush as those supposed Evangelicals who hate abortionists, gays, Muslims, and Jews?

 

[Deleted member 24525]

Second, isn't your statement "I like South Park and dislike Evangelicals. (Evangelicals are crueler and more judgemental than South Park)" painted with the same brush as those supposed Evangelicals who hate abortionists, gays, Muslims, and Jews?

It was supposed to be ironic...sorry I forgot the smiley

@ PHROG: Not sure what the problem is, but the link did not show up on my web page... could be the Army's "strategic editing". But I wonder where the 24% of Republicans that believe Obama is the anitchrist fall into.

Also kind of hard to take this too seriously after I have just been inundated about rioting and flag burning and impending attacks because of some douche bag's desire to make a POLITICAL statement. Point: lighten up there are things more serious out there then someone being offended by what was originally a joke.

I'll shut up now.

 

[phrogpilot73]

@ PHROG: Not sure what the problem is, but the link did not show up on my web page... could be the Army's "strategic editing". But I wonder where the 24% of Republicans that believe Obama is the anitchrist fall into.

It wasn't the Army - it's the new website colors that make it tough. Hover the mouse over "read up on it" and you'll find the link. The link was from Wikipedia tracing the history of Evangelicalism - from the 1700's onward.

I'd be willing to bet it's a smattering of religious groups, and not just one - there are radicals everywhere.

A smiley would have gone a long way in either one of your posts.

 

[craftingraptor]

I tried to be subtle, but now I'm being directive. TheChief is an evangelical, and had you actually read the link I provided you would find out that 28% of this country identify themselves as evangelicals, as opposed to 26% Catholics.

Oh, and I have seen Catholics do all of the above as well. What did I say? Something about vocal minority? You'll zip it now - or I'll zip it for you.

Sir, I'm going to have to contradict your statement because I think your source is suspect.

First, the source for the percentage found in the wiki page you point to is from this website: http://pewforum.org/
A place that is still polling people about whether they think Pres. Obama is muslim.

A second mouse-click found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States
This wiki page suggested that the evangelical demographic is actually around 0.9% of the population. Something I find much more realistic. Someone's lying or omitting the narrow basis of their study.

 

[mmx1]

Something's hinky about the first wiki numbers; they don't agree with the sources they're citing. The city college study they cite puts evangelicals at .5% in 2001; so unless they're lumping other denominations in there I don't see how they're getting the numbers they claim.

 

[SWACQ]

On the other hand, if you consider evangelical to be those who actually fall within the definition, regardless if they consider themselves as such, the number would be much higher than 28%.

I would not lend credence to a study that puts evangelicals at .5%.

Definition of EVANGELICAL

1: of, relating to, or being in agreement with the Christian gospel especially as it is presented in the four Gospels

2: protestant

3: emphasizing salvation by faith in the atoning death of Jesus Christ through personal conversion, the authority of Scripture, and the importance of preaching as contrasted with ritual

4 a capitalized : of or relating to the Evangelical Church in Germany b often capitalized : of, adhering to, or marked by fundamentalism : fundamentalist c often capitalized : low church

5: marked by militant or crusading zeal : evangelistic <the evangelical ardor of the movement's leaders — Amos Vogel>

— Evan·gel·i·cal·ism\-li-kə-ˌli-zəm\ noun
— evan·gel·i·cal·ly\-li-k(ə-)lē\ adverb

 

[Tex_Hill]

Really?
you have never seen a group of Evangelicals yell 17 year old girls walking out of abortion clinics?
You have never seen them yell at people walking into bars?
You have never seen them spew hatred towards gays, Muslims, Jews?
Most are pro death penalty and anti Euthanasia. How is it okay to kill one group and not another? isn't Murder forbidden by that same bible?
The "Group" as an entity has become a political organization not a Religious one.

You sure do like to paint with a wide brush. So using your logic is it safe to assume that all naval aviators are drunks who like to sexually assault women any time they get together in a group? (Tailhook '91)

You obviously have no clue about Christian beliefs. I'm an evangelical, and I hate no one, nor have I ever yelled at a woman walking out of an abortion clinic. If anything I feel compassion and sympathy for a woman who has gone through an abortion. It is a traumatic experience that scars a woman forever.

The Bible is the basis of my moral belief system so yes I do believe homosexuality is a sin, but once again I feel compassion for anyone who is a slave to sin. I also know that in Christ's eyes the homosexual's sin is no greater than mine. All sin is equal because all is disobedience to God. I also don't hate Muslims or the Jews. Christ was a Jew so in a way I owe my faith to the Jews, so how could I hate them?

The Bible also makes clear distinctions over what is considered murder vs. capital punishment. Perhaps you should try studying it for a change instead of maligning it and those who hold to its truths.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Sir, I'm going to have to contradict your statement because I think your source is suspect.

First, the source for the percentage found in the wiki page you point to is from this website: http://pewforum.org/
A place that is still polling people about whether they think Pres. Obama is muslim.

A second mouse-click found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States
This wiki page suggested that the evangelical demographic is actually around 0.9% of the population. Something I find much more realistic. Someone's lying or omitting the narrow basis of their study.

Actually, that's why I didn't quote those numbers. I quoted the numbers that were derived from the Statistical Abstract of the US. 0.9% is correct, if you only go by people who identified themselves as evangelicals. Then when you start including the denominations that they participate in that are members of the National Association of Evangelicals or are considered Evangelical churches (Presbyterian, Anglican, Assemblies of God, Church of the Nazarene, Church of God, Mennonite, Lutheran, some Baptists, etc) and you can see the number climb. Just a quick glance at the ones that I know are considered evangelical yields 8.9%. The Statistical Abstract of the US derived it's data from the American Religious Identification Study - conducted by the Graduate Center of the City University of New York. I don't know all of the Evangelical churches, but it seems that the data appears to be valid - two separate polling organizations come up with sizeable numbers.

And if you do further digging, you will realize that the Pew Forum only sponsored the study. It was conducted by the Bliss Institute at the University of Akron. Just because you don't like some of the polls they sponsor, doesn't necessarily mean the science behind it was flawed.

 

[craftingraptor]

the good word

Sorry, I didn't realize that there was a National Association of Evangelical Churches. Normally, I do not think counting people as part of a larger group is appropriate just because they fall under a somewhat vague and somewhat arbitrary set of definitions. For instance, athiesm is usually defined as "no doubt that there isn't a god," but any scientist worth his salt knows that there must be less than 100% certainty without extensive proofs and even still there is uncertainty. So, under that "definition" most athiests are actually agnostic. Therefore, I was against labeling certain denominations as evangelical unless they already described themselves as such, which a national association affiliation would imply.

And, I only pointed out what was on the website because it seemed to suggest further digging was required.

 

[SWACQ]

words

So does an alcoholic have to admit himself to be such first in order to be counted as one?

 

[craftingraptor]

words words

We could play around with analogies all day that work in both directions. There's official and then there's OFFICIAL. I drew a line on the religion topic because every christian I've talked to is adamant about which exact subset of Christianity they are. Would you deny that? Minus a few technicalities, I'm told by other athiests that Christians are really Jews. Anyway, all I'm saying is that the way in which the poll is counted...counts.