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Iran seeking Su-30 fighters and Il-78 tankers
- Thread starter HeyJoe
- Start date
Flathatter13
Banned
Ahh, the much feared "Sieve of Eagles."
Brett
I don't disagree with you that the wall of F15's that was supposed to stop anything and everything was less that impressive however I have also talked to guys that were in said "wall" and more then one of them had the same gripe.
Missles that don't work or won't track means no kills. I guess alot of the Aim-7's that they had at the time just flat refused to track and the ones that got close didn't positively detonate. Sparrow BVR is a joke and I think even you guys in the Navy have witnessed that too.
Hey I gotta defend my guys a little right ???:icon_smok
I did enough OSW/ONW deployments with an AEF to appreciate the "agony and the ecstasy" of USAF style air warfare. On balance, I'd say the AF does a good job at what they do, they just don't do it like we do.
Brett
Flathatter13
Banned
More acurately would be;
"They don't like that you do their job too and at times get it done better."
OOPPS DID I SAY THAT..... time for some hail marys
"They don't like that you do their job too and at times get it done better."
OOPPS DID I SAY THAT..... time for some hail marys
The missiles that launched actually did better than ever...it was loading errors (especially by one unit) that caused the majority of failures.
My last CO in Prowlers was on an exchange tour in EF-111's and a squadronmate of the crew during the Gulf War (some guys have all of the luck.......
) and knew the whole 'manuever kill' story very well. The Raven pilot dove to the deck while being chased by the Mirage and leveled out right above the sand going full blast. Right after he leveled out the crew saw a flash from their rear and just kept going. They later learned that the Mirage plowed into the deck right behind them. However, an Eagle flight claimed they had the guy painted at the same time and that was what caused the guy to plow in, I never heard the fuel starvation one before (HJ is right about the other one, sounds like someone is mixing up two stories). I am not sure if it is ever resolved but most lists I have seen credit the EF-111 crew (not sure if it is official).I would not be incined to give a guy credit if another idiot runs out of fuel on final because he is in burner the whole time.
I thought there were two AIM-54 lawn darts, same mistake twice. That was what I heard at a brief at NSAWC. Not an official part of the brief, it was during the Q&A afterwards with a Hornet guy.
Fight like you train, train like you fight........
While I am not too familiar with Iran, I doubt the source of this information (Debka).
Here is something that Debka-Net (the subscription service) recently published: "US Sinks North Korean Ship Bound for Iran."
NOTE: This report references the Debka-Net source. I have read the original Debka-Net article in printed form and both articles pretty much say the same thing from the 7th paragraph on. I could not find a link to the original Debka-Net source, probably because it is hidden within their pay-for-use subscription site.
If someone could find another, more reliable, source that cites Rosoboroexport I would be more inclined to believe the story.
It's still heartening to hear that we have technology that can "clandestinely" sink a ship. No big booms or explosions, I guess. Cool.
Wait . . . we can't? Oh. Nevermind then . . .
It's still heartening to hear that we have technology that can "clandestinely" sink a ship. No big booms or explosions, I guess. Cool.
Wait . . . we can't? Oh. Nevermind then . . .
Sounds like Tom Clancy has found work again.
Brett
.....the "agony and the ecstasy" of USAF style air warfare. On balance, I'd say the AF does a good job at what they do, they just don't do it like we do.
Brett
This is not a recent phenomenon. Back in the early-mid 80's the Air Force fighter jocks had evidently forgotten the hard lessons-learned in Vietnam air combat, even though the F-15 was suppose to become the pure air superiority fighter the boys in blue desired AS A RESULT of experience garnered in VN.
When "we" flew against them in an Adversary role out of Tyndall, Luke, Homestead, or Nellis --- basically anywhere --- the F-15 drivers would initially run in line abreast while "filling the frequency" with calls of "Fox-1, Fox-1" at 15-20 miles with look-down shots called on small hard-maneuvering A-4 sized targets (us
) against a significant ground clutter background -- at least in the desert. It just wasn't going to happen with the Sparrow missiles then extant and the "judges" usually agreed 90% of the time. So the F-15's would continue with the run in, 4-plane division line abreast, heads in their scopes looking for us. We usually responded by pulling up and shoot 'em in the belly & basically hammered them with our old airplanes and still older bodies. This was not an "uncommon" scenario ...
Unless I got blindsided -- which didn't happen too often against the AF -- the only time I was really "challenged" when fighting an F-15 was -- once -- when I got spit out of the larger fight with an F-15 during a 4 v Many -- two Dallas A4s and two Dallas VF-201 F4s against a gaggle of Eglin F-15's. That was when the two of us -- the F-15 lead and myself -- ended up in an airborne mud-wrestling contest -- rolling around each other, up and down, round-n-round -- until the larger engagement was called off. We had TACTs pods, but neither of us got anything off against the other except a quick snap shot call ....
That particular driver was an O-5 who had many hours of combat flying F-4s in Vietnam. He knew how to make that F-15 "sit up and talk"; i.e., he flew it like it's designers might have envisioned. During the debrief he kept going on about how much he had enjoyed the "fight". It was like he hadn't seen one for a while ... what a surprise, huh ???
In general, however ... you couldn't tell the boys with the tailored flight suits and ascots too much ... especially the jocks from the Nellis FWS .... you just had to show 'em ...
I very seriously doubt they would make that kind of buy, they don't have the money. And don't tell me they do, you aren't paying close enough attention to current event if you think so.......
Look for a more realistic purchase of newer SAM's, better investment on their part.
Hmm, doesn't seem to be reported anywhere else but Debka, which has been likened to an Israeli Intel version of National Inquirer on occasion with unattributed sources.
I have a hard time believing Russia would make such a huge sell especially after they are not getting there full payments for the Nuke Plant. But then again Putin did just try and annex the North Pole. Maybe he is still pissed about the missile shield and is acting out...
Hadn't heard that. What a laugh, it's nothing but floating ice and you don't have to believe Al Gore's pronouncements, even the Navy Ice Center is warning about the melting of the Ice Cap and predicting that Carrier Strike Groups will be able to navigate there eventually.....hmm, maybe he read their report and is trying to forestall that. Of course, he could go for the South Pole which does have actual rocks underneath.
Flathatter13
Banned
This is not a recent phenomenon. Back in the early-mid 80's the Air Force fighter jocks had evidently forgotten the hard lessons-learned in Vietnam air combat, even though the F-15 was suppose to become the pure air superiority fighter the boys in blue desired AS A RESULT of experience garnered in VN.
When "we" flew against them in an Adversary role out of Tyndall, Luke, Homestead, or Nellis --- basically anywhere --- the F-15 drivers would initially run in line abreast while "filling the frequency" with calls of "Fox-1, Fox-1" at 15-20 miles with look-down shots called on small hard-maneuvering A-4 sized targets (us
It just wasn't going to happen with the Sparrow missiles then extant and the "judges" usually agreed 90% of the time. So the F-15's would continue with the run in, 4-plane division line abreast, heads in their scopes looking for us. We usually responded by pulling up and shoot 'em in the belly & basically hammered them with our old airplanes and still older bodies. This was not an "uncommon" scenario ...
Unless I got blindsided -- which didn't happen too often against the AF -- the only time I was really "challenged" when fighting an F-15 was -- once -- when I got spit out of the larger fight with an F-15 during a 4 v Many -- two Dallas A4s and two Dallas VF-201 F4s against a gaggle of Eglin F-15's. That was when the two of us -- the F-15 lead and myself -- ended up in an airborne mud-wrestling contest -- rolling around each other, up and down, round-n-round -- until the larger engagement was called off. We had TACTs pods, but neither of us got anything off against the other except a quick snap shot call ....
That particular driver was an O-5 who had many hours of combat flying F-4s in Vietnam. He knew how to make that F-15 "sit up and talk"; i.e., he flew it like it's designers might have envisioned. During the debrief he kept going on about how much he had enjoyed the "fight". It was like he hadn't seen one for a while ... what a surprise, huh ???
In general, however ... you couldn't tell the boys with the tailored flight suits and ascots too much ... especially the jocks from the Nellis FWS .... you just had to show 'em ...
Once again given validation to the old saying of "Old age and treachory will overcome youth and vigor."