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Kobe Bryant Helo Incident
- Thread starter bubblehead
- Start date
Something your inner ear and seat of the pants don't experience in diving is the g forces in different directions- lateral, fore-aft, and vertical. Your butt cheeks feel lateral g a bit too (it's like sitting in a chair that is lower on one side), a lot like sitting in a car or a boat taking a turn compared to how a bicycle or a motorcycle take a turn. The two wheeler leans into the turn but the four wheeler and the boat do not; sometimes the four wheeler and the boat heel. The airplane and helicopter should bank into a turn and normally you control it to make it do that–it becomes second nature–but sometimes when your eyeballs and your inner ear and your butt cheeks are giving your brain conflicting information then you can make a mistake with your control inputs. That's not the only one of the well known (and well understood by aerospace physiologists) illusions. The others are similar though.
The result can be what @jollygreen07 , @PhrogLoop , and @FrankTheTank just described. We've all experienced it at one time or another and it can feel overwhelming.
The result can be what @jollygreen07 , @PhrogLoop , and @FrankTheTank just described. We've all experienced it at one time or another and it can feel overwhelming.
I got a quick spate of Spacial D the other day. I was above some clouds (broken ceiling) and had to grab an ILS to get below them and then transition to my airport right next to the airport with the ILS (both were VFR below the ceiling...~1200/10). ATC gave me a turn to the final approach course right as I was joining the localizer while simultaneously punching into the clouds. The clouds initially were spaced far enough part that I couldn't use anything outside as a reference but I was still getting the flashes in light as I was going down through them.
After stabilizing on the localizer and starting to descend, I took the moment to acknowledge that the light was distracting, I refocused on the AI, and then continued with the approach to break out. This was in a fixed-wing and I wasn't coupled on the autopilot and the issue was very brief (like a second or two on a mostly stabilized approach) but as has been said, it can happen to anyone. As others have said, the training AND proficiency of that training help you work through it.
After stabilizing on the localizer and starting to descend, I took the moment to acknowledge that the light was distracting, I refocused on the AI, and then continued with the approach to break out. This was in a fixed-wing and I wasn't coupled on the autopilot and the issue was very brief (like a second or two on a mostly stabilized approach) but as has been said, it can happen to anyone. As others have said, the training AND proficiency of that training help you work through it.
I believe that info was confirmed yesterday in NTSB update....
GroundPounder
Well-Known Member
I would like to think that if I had the net worth that Mr. Bryant had that I would have onl
Caveat # 1, I fly GA and have a fraction of the time of the guys on this board, so I'm speaking only from my frame of reference.
I've had it happen 1 time and that was on the ground. Long story short, I was driving in rain so heavy that you could not see thought the windshield, so I pulled over on the shoulder of the interstate. Shortly thereafter the wind began to blow hard enough to rock my stationary car. I was 100% sure the car was moving forward and rolling at the same time. I opened the door, and this allowed my brain to process that I was stationary. I had only a few hundred hours of Cessna time, but my first through was that had I been in an airplane, I would have been dead,and quickly.
I made a point to get at least 10 hours under the hood every year after that. It never made sense to get the rating doing what I did, but I had a great appreciation of how quickly things could go south if you were not prepared.
Caveat # 1, I fly GA and have a fraction of the time of the guys on this board, so I'm speaking only from my frame of reference.
I've had it happen 1 time and that was on the ground. Long story short, I was driving in rain so heavy that you could not see thought the windshield, so I pulled over on the shoulder of the interstate. Shortly thereafter the wind began to blow hard enough to rock my stationary car. I was 100% sure the car was moving forward and rolling at the same time. I opened the door, and this allowed my brain to process that I was stationary. I had only a few hundred hours of Cessna time, but my first through was that had I been in an airplane, I would have been dead,and quickly.
I made a point to get at least 10 hours under the hood every year after that. It never made sense to get the rating doing what I did, but I had a great appreciation of how quickly things could go south if you were not prepared.
Everybody has probably had it. You get it in the automatic carwash when everything you see through the windows are the giant brushes slowly moving along the car- and you realize that your right foot is crushing the shit out of the brake pedal even though your speedometer reads 0mph and the only thing your inner ear has felt in the last two minutes, since the little red light in the carwash said "stop" and you put your car in park, has been the car wobbling a little.
Or the same thing when you're stopped at a traffic light but a big truck moves past you and you see it out of the corner of your eye. You feel like you're rolling back even though you know you're stopped.
Or the same thing when you're stopped at a traffic light but a big truck moves past you and you see it out of the corner of your eye. You feel like you're rolling back even though you know you're stopped.
Helos, Mountains, and weird weather have always been a shitty combination. This whole thing is tragic, but maybe some good comes from it.
With respect to borderline-IIMC and climbing to a safe altitude, that has to be ingrained in the culture. Even in Naval Aviation I saw plenty of Instrument rated folks not want to commit to it because it was, in a sense, “giving up”.
With respect to borderline-IIMC and climbing to a safe altitude, that has to be ingrained in the culture. Even in Naval Aviation I saw plenty of Instrument rated folks not want to commit to it because it was, in a sense, “giving up”.
Yep. I sorta did it once, not in mountain country, "just" in rising terrain. The timing of my call to ATC and our climb into the clouds was pretty delicate. At least we were already on an SVFR clearance and had a navaid tuned up to give a quick radial-DME to make the controller's job easier. Damn near killed my two students too as we crossed some high tension lines with about a hundred feet to spare...
So there's that.
Live and learn. Learn from other people and live more.
Funny how things turn out- one of them came back to instruct, many years later, and ended up being my relief at a job at the wing. In turnover, I told him to not ever forget how I almost killed him and [other ccx student], and to relate that experience to the flying mistakes that people make (on the road or in the local flying area) and how we control our own culture.
People take driving test to certify they are safe to operate a motor vehicle and have a lot of driving experience, yet they crash all the time. Same thing.
Reminds me of Hummer-Hoover-Helo ops at night in a Norwegian Fjord while EMCON, and we were below a layer, shooting an approach to the “ship” that we had a visual on. At some point, one of us realized things just didn’t look right, and we leveled off and overflew some sort of large ship that was a not a carrier. A brief pause while we looked at each other and said, “Was it pierside? Mountains everywhere? ....YAHHH” and went to MRT and max angle of climb speed, right up into the goo. Big pucker factor until we got above MSA and the clouds, where there was a beautiful moon and peaks sticking up out of the layer, left, right, and front of us. Fessed up and got a talk-on from mother.
So you think he didn't do it? I suppose you also believe that Jeff Epstein killed himself...
...Or like when the jetway is being pulled away at the gate just prior to push...“HOLY SHIT!!!”
Couple these with the fact that this is probably a pretty busy chunk of airspace, proximity to a lot of high traffic airports, etc... so just “stop where you are, get higher up, and sort yourself out” isn’t an available strategy as some might assume for a RW aircraft? And perhaps a client that is pointing out they absolutely need to be at Point B by xx:xx? Crappy situation all around.
Thanks all for input on spatial d. Insightful.
I'd prefer to take my chances. The chance of hitting another aircraft is some percentage lower than 100% (especially in a radar environment). As evidence shows, the chance of hitting the ground was 100%,