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Looking for gouge? Ask your Stupid Questions about Naval Aviation here (Part 1)

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HeyJoe

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
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CenterMass said:
Yep, I thought that was "hot" linking though.
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A "hot" link is when object of the link shows up in the post. A "cold" link is when you have to point and click to go there. Good find regardless!
 
E

eddie

Working Plan B
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heyjoe said:
I think it would do any person good to go somewhere and be a minority treated with disdain (be it race, creed or religion).
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I found there was no difference when I was young, but by the time you hit adolescence, stereotypes start to get reenforced :(
 
HeyJoe

HeyJoe

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eddie said:
I found there was no difference when I was young, but by the time you hit adolescence, stereotypes start to get reenforced :(
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Agreed. I can't recall any of it in Elementary School, but it was alive and well by the time I got to High School. I had moved from Hawaii to Alabama in height of tensions in 60s and then to DC area and back to Hawaii only to find myself a minority after watching others be on receiving end of bigotry.
 
HuggyU2

HuggyU2

Well-Known Member
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The term "haole" (however you spell it) comes from the Hawai'ian tradition where two men will meet, touch foreheads together, and then stand back and deeply inhale,... sort of breathing in one's essence. When they met the Westerners who did not do this, the term came about, as pointed out already, meaning "no breath".
My apologies to any Hawai'ians or historians if my rough linguistics history is not exact.
 
raptor10

raptor10

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huggyu2 said:
The term "haole" (however you spell it) comes from the Hawai'ian tradition where two men will meet, touch foreheads together, and then stand back and deeply inhale,... sort of breathing in one's essence. When they met the Westerners who did not do this, the term came about, as pointed out already, meaning "no breath".
My apologies to any Hawai'ians or historians if my rough linguistics history is not exact.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haole

A common popular etymology claims that the word is derived from "hāʻole", literally meaning "no breath". Foreigners did not know or use the honi (the Hawaiian word for "kiss"), a Polynesian/Hawaiian greeting by touching nose-to-nose and inhaling or essentially sharing each other's breaths, and so the foreigners were described as "breathless." The implication is that foreigners are aloof and ignorant of local ways - said by some to be a common stereotype in Hawaiʻi.
Many linguists believe that this etymology is erroneous, however, for these reasons:
  • There are innumerable citations from Hawaiian showing that haole simply means "foreign." For example, haole ʻeleʻele means a dark-skinned foreigner. The term is found in ancient chants which pre-date European contact.
  • The word 'breath' is hā (with a macron or kahakō over the a), not plain ha. The word 'not' is ʻole, with a glottal stop or ʻokina, not ole, which means "fang." In spoken Hawaiian, vowel length is contrastive, and these are major differences in pronunciation. However, they would not appear in Hawaiian dictionaries using the older form of Hawaiian spelling, which did not use kahakō or ʻokina (considered a consonant) to indicate vowel length and glottal stops. Only modern dictionaries show the kahakō and ʻokina. It seems likely that the folk etymology was created by someone with only a dictionary knowledge of Hawaiian, using an older dictionary.
However, as the word predates the first written Hawaiian dictionary by centuries, and pronunciations have evolved over that time, the debate continues, and each camp has its adherents. There are no alternate theories of the origin of the word haole, yet it has become a regional word in regards to non-local individuals on many of the Pacific Islands. In practice, though, the word is not so highly charged in many of the other islands, such as Guam or Saipan. Other Polynesian languages, such as Tongan and Samoan, use the word pālangi or papālangi (ultimately linked to a word meaning Western European, or a Frank, see farangi).
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Uncle Fester

Uncle Fester

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...in any case, it's not a complimentary term. Kind of puts things in perspective, though. White, black, Hispanic, they don't care. You're just a stupid ha'ole.

Ponder the irony of a society where nearly all the locals are mixed-race, bigoted against those who aren't. Ponder it!
 
A4sForever

A4sForever

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pilot
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Uncle Fester said:
...in any case ....Ponder the irony of a society where nearly all the locals are mixed-race, bigoted against those who aren't. Ponder it!
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Or where there are no true "natives" ... as they ALL came from other parts of Polynesia (that's actually one of the great overwater navigation stories in all of history) ... and ponder a society where even if you're BORN THERE and happen to be white -- you're still a haole. A fuckin' haole, at that. Of all the places I've been over the past 40+ years ... the lower '48 is the LEAST race-conscious place I've come up with yet ... :)

Stupid questions? That's REALLY stupid. Ponder that. :sleep_125
 
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