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- Thread starter Horseshoe
- Start date
FormerRecruitingGuru
Making Recruiting Great Again
TOP GUN
It goes beyond that, USAF uses "patch wearers" (the coveted Fighter Weapons School) to dictate tactis, mission routing, etc. to squadrons from afar. In Eldorado Canyon, patch Wearers in Germany told the F-111s how to strike Libya and even generated their charts. We had 3 of them visit us on USS America and they were 2 0-5s and an ECMO 0-4. Their counterparts planning our A-6 strikes were 0-3s and an 0-2 (now CO of USS Nashville). We were astounded that they had planned a stream raid where we had A-6s penetrating the desert and ariving in a multiple axis nearly simultaneous wave. Result: no Navy losses and last F-111 of stream raid knocked down over water. In Desert Storm, F-16 pilots went to bed knowing nothing about their mission. They would wake up and go to Twelve O'Clock High brief and learn what the "patch wearers" who didn't fly any missions had cooked up for them. I later worked with one of these F-16 pilots who had been routed over a series of SA-3 sites by "patch wearers". He spent most of Desert Storm as a POW and lost faith in the vaunted "patch wearers".
So true AND their rules for how and what to do fill a large volume whereas the Navy philosophy of here's some "don'ts" barely fill a page.
When I flew escort for the re-flagged Kuwaiti tankers in the Gulf in 1989, we had a bunch of Air Force guys fly with us on orientation flights. They were always amazed our AWs were enlisted and not officers. They were even more amazed an O3 (me) was the mission commander and had ROE release authority for the rockeye and harpoons we sometimes carried.
They said an Air Force plane would have had officers at all the AW stations, a minimum of an O4 MC, and the MC would have to get permission to drop from at least an O6 despite what the ROE said. (Remember this wasn't a "war" for the U.S.)
The Navy and Marines easily give a lot more responsibility to their junior officers and enlisted Sailors than the Air Force would ever consider.
They said an Air Force plane would have had officers at all the AW stations, a minimum of an O4 MC, and the MC would have to get permission to drop from at least an O6 despite what the ROE said. (Remember this wasn't a "war" for the U.S.)
The Navy and Marines easily give a lot more responsibility to their junior officers and enlisted Sailors than the Air Force would ever consider.
WishICouldFly
UO Future Pork Chop
Responsibility?! Ok, I'm going to the Air Force, later guys. :icon_tong
Originally Posted by WBGTSNA
I know that the AF students have their own swim training when they start Primary, but I couldn't begin to tell you what that involves. I just know that you will NOT have to do the mile swim.
Have fun with USAF swim quals then....
WishICouldFly
UO Future Pork Chop
Sweeeeeet, I call middle.
BlackBearHockey
go blue...
I'll be the first to say I don't know from experience, but I quickly discounted the AF when I searched for an avenue to becoming a pilot. I don't know about flight operations except for what I hear, but I do know every Naval Aviator I've met has had a certain aura about him that I haven't seen in AF pilots, something that distinguishes them above anyone else. It's a mindset that won't be matched in other services, and a lot of your decision should/will be based on the type of people you'll serve with, and the best types of people I've met have had summer whites.
I can't really explain it, but I think it's one of those, "if you have to ask, then you should pursue the AF"
I can't really explain it, but I think it's one of those, "if you have to ask, then you should pursue the AF"
A funny corollary to that is, I've seen USAF O-5s doing jobs we would give to an E-3. In Misawa, I saw an O-5 doing parking lot attendant duty for some special event (change of command or something). Amazing.
Brett
BlackBearHockey
go blue...
And the dress blues, right?!?!
Of course! my mistake
Picture this at squadron X Sunday duty section muster.
"Uh Commander I noticed that you got the balls-to-eight hangar bay/fire watch." "You want to swap me for base FOD-walkdown at 11?"
The Tomcat-Rhino retreads taught us middies to play crud... Its actually pretty awesome.
Whats the world coming to...cats sleeping with dogs...oh lord please take me now....
I learned crud in kadena. For the AF, it was an official squadron sport with brackets and all. The even had a specially made pool table (missing the side pockets) in the o club. I will admit we navy guys had fun playing full contact crud, but the thought of how the AF approached the game still gives me the willies....