• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

Merged: Vermont ANG F-16 Pilot Grounded for Flyover Fenway

FlyinSpy

Mongo only pawn, in game of life...
Contributor
I have done a fly by or two . been early, been late ( I blame the natioanl anthem singer) been in full grunt, but never been upside down over show center.
The one time I was involved in a fly-by, we had a pre-show brief with the producers on Fri evening, where they said "This singer tends to go thru the Anthem in x min and y sec." So we used that as a reference to plan our hold point and push time, and had a guy on the ground with a PRC-143 to give us a "go" and a "30 sec" call. Of course, we had some section buffoonery at push time, followed by a frenzied call "Slow down, she's taking too long", followed by an even more frenzied "Oh jeez hurry up she's going way too fast!", resulting in us zorching over show center exactly on "brave!" (as in "home of the..") but also going 4.5 bills at MRT, setting off every car alarm in the parking lot. NASCAR fans love loud machines, though, so all was forgiven.....

Below is how it all should look from the lead when it all comes together!
 

Attachments

  • Flyby.JPG
    Flyby.JPG
    130.5 KB · Views: 120

HackerF15E

Retired Strike Pig Driver
None
Talked to a bro 30 minutes ago, that was dash two in the fly over.

Well, first off...there's no such thing as a "dash two" in a USAF formation. :)

Anyhow, I'm still waiting to see where a lag roll has ever been an approved solution to arresting closure in a rejoin to fingertip. If it were a BFM engagement, it would be a different story. There are only two answers to 'what happened', no matter how this gets spun; 1) the dude shined his a$$ in order to look cool on TV, or 2) the dude performed an unsafe, unauthorized maneuver to arrest his closure.

Doesn't matter WHY they were in the position they were in -- the flight lead could have been the shittiest lead on the planet and the singer could have stopped and started the anthem three times and messed up the timing -- either way, how the wingman chose to handle the problem he was given was incorrect.

That being said...it looked pretty cool!
 

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
The one time I was involved in a fly-by, we had a pre-show brief with the producers on Fri evening, where they said "This singer tends to go thru the Anthem in x min and y sec." So we used that as a reference to plan our hold point and push time, and had a guy on the ground with a PRC-143 to give us a "go" and a "30 sec" call. Of course, we had some section buffoonery at push time, followed by a frenzied call "Slow down, she's taking too long", followed by an even more frenzied "Oh jeez hurry up she's going way too fast!", resulting in us zorching over show center exactly on "brave!" (as in "home of the..") but also going 4.5 bills at MRT, setting off every car alarm in the parking lot. NASCAR fans love loud machines, though, so all was forgiven.....

Below is how it all should look from the lead when it all comes together!

If you're close, the singer will make it happen by changing tempo.

My first flyby I was leading. We had a somewhat close INS point from the internet, but we tried to sweeten it on the way to the IP with -2's DMT (my jet didn't have one). Through some switchpiggery, the point got moved farther away instead of closer. When I entered it in my system, I was 8 miles away at the IP in low holding (beneath about a 4000' OVC deck, vis about 4.5 NM).

We didn't have any kind of pre-brief with the NASCAR guys, but they gave us an approximate time for the flyby. We had a guy on top of the press box with a PRC-113 to call us in.

This was at Martinsville Speedway, the smallest track on the circuit (.536 miles) and it's in a small valley. Our guy on the ground called us in (music starting) and we pushed. About 10 seconds later he called and said "Wait, they're not singing yet", so I started a left hand orbit. About 90 degrees through the turn he came back and said that they were singing now, so I reversed and came back in.

At about 4 miles I was scanning for the news helicpoter, banner plane, and the track, but all I could see was rolling hills packed with parked cars. No track. I told our ground guy that I was NO JOY, and he said "You're looking good, keep it coming". So I did. And flew over my designation diamond exactly on time, which would have been nice, but the track was about a mile and a half off to my right.

I saw it and said "Hang on......coming right". My 2-3G right hand turn was amplified down the whip to 3 and 4 to about 5-6Gs and the formation suffered. We flew across the track 38 seconds late from the opposite direction of what we briefed.

I have never been so embarrassed in my whole life.

The "Goods":
We did eventually make it.
The fans loved it. They couldn't tell one way or the other, and that's the ones sober enough to comment later.
The camera crew did a good job of making it look good on TV.
We had a BLAST at the race.

The "Others":
I disgraced the Attack community by being late and out of formation.
The Commandant was there watching.

LL:
A good map study is better than an INS point any day.
Pay attention to the basics (funnelling features, better brief of what I wanted to hear)
Don't make a bad pass worse with a big city move in close. I should have extended and been even later to avoid the shitty formation and dangerous maneuver over the crowd.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tom

Paddles

Registered User
They were either incompetent or stupid...I'm guessing stupid and it was an intentional canopy roll.

However, I'll definitely give them props for having some huge balls.
 

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
For the record, his maneuver was not a "canopy roll." It was a late and bad attempt at a high-G "displacement roll" or a "lag roll," similar to a barrel-roll attack, designed to stop closure rate and a potential overshoot. "Canopy rolls" on the other hand are usually done co-speed with no closure, purely for looks and thrills. They have no substantive purpose. But he had both need and purpose….but alas, no talent nor judgment. (Nor did his flight lead for that matter.)

We used to do that maneuver often upon joining up. But we knew what we were doing, had some skill, experience, and most importantly – good judgment. We only did them high above a "hard deck" (8-10k) and with far more precision – and never that out of control. Never did we do them at 2k. Nor were we like this guy, realizing and initiating the maneuver way far too late, then scooping out at the bottom, endangering a stadium full of people, and putting on a dickt-up display for the world, and showcasing his gross incompetence piloting one of world's finest fighters.

He and his flight lead ought to get orders "flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong" for their next tour if they are lucky …. (Weepingly, what a waste of Uncle Sam's sleek machines to be given to one so ineptly driven.) Would you ever want this Dilbert hot-dog providing CAS for your buds?
 

Single Seat

Average member
pilot
None
What do you call him then, Par Two?

I think we call that a bogey?

So Brett basically you're calling Capt XXX and the LtCol that made the official press release liars? Bold statement if thats the case. I can tell you first hand from talking to guys that were there, who I believe and have flown with, it was never intentional.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I think we call that a bogey?

So Brett basically you're calling Capt XXX and the LtCol that made the official press release liars? Bold statement if thats the case. I can tell you first hand from talking to guys that were there, who I believe and have flown with, it was never intentional.

What am I thinking? The military would never spin something for the benefit of the press, or to cover it's ass. :rolleyes: Intentional or not (we'll probably never know), it was colossally stupid. On that, I think we can all agree.

Brett
 

FLYTPAY

Pro-Rec Fighter Pilot
pilot
None
So Brett basically you're calling Capt XXX and the LtCol that made the official press release liars? Bold statement if thats the case. I can tell you first hand from talking to guys that were there, who I believe and have flown with, it was never intentional.
Legitimate maneuver=aerobatic manuever "in formation" with trajectory towards stadium below 2000'? Even with the time hack off, save yourself embarassment and ridicule......BE LATE for a freaking baseball flyby! Piss poor judgement and airmanship, it's on tape.
 
Top