Midshipman Rank

[The Chief]

... realities.

Okay, okay, speaking of beating dead horses, it is just that I have a burr under my saddle and hard to live with.

As several have pointed out, from a UCMJ point of view, excepting USNA midshipmen, other midshipmen are midshipmen only when on active duty. Ok, got that straight.

The offense that I was talking about was:

The guy/gal from MIT NROTC unit, puts on their uniform, attends a town hall with SECDEF. They harrass SECDEF, call him all sorts of names and etc etc etc. Boston treats them as heros, Boston Globe et al simply adore them. Certainly they violated no civil laws in their "free speech". If they violated no civil laws, what recourse does the Navy have? Or should have? But okay, let us forget the uniform, they are in mufti? What then?

I see a sleepless night heading my way!

 

[TheBubba]

My take on Chief's story:

1. Put the SECDEF on blast if you want... free speech. Just don't do it in uniform. Last I recall, SECDEF is one of the civilians we're to obey lawful orders from. I also believe its at the very least military ettiquite (sp?) not to put those senior to you on blast like that... especially not publically and in uniform.

2. May be priviledged info, but how were said MIDN dealt with? I personally would not want them in my ranks. Thats bad for morale and unit cohesion. It also has huge potential to undermine the CoC.. if they'll do that to SECDEF publically, who's to say they won't to an officer or MIDN striper inthe unit? I've that type of situation in my company as USNA... no good can come of it. If I were their unit commander, the least I'd have for them would be ALOT of extra duties. And not the fun kind.

3. This dead horse has been beaten beyond recognition. Multiple times.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Chief, I think any NROTC CO has the option of recommending aptitude LOA's and/or disenrollment for his/her mids. If it were my call (putting myself in that particular CO's shoes) I would recommend an XOI, and most likely disenrollment unless there were unusually extenuating circumstances (unlikely in this case). No real need for UCMJ punishment IMHO, although I guess the sting of legal proceedings would probably make an example for any other mids with the same dumb ideas. But you are right.....I would guess that this situation could possibly lead you into trouble w/ the UCMJ and the military justice system.

 

[raptor10]

Exactly what MIDNJAC said, CO holds a PRB for these guys, the LT's put in thier vote as to whether they should stay or go, and the CO decides.

Look at it this way, If you are ua for watch/duty section what will happen? I'm going to assume serious legal consequences. If a (below average) middy is late for drill/watch/pt the consequences are much less severe than the OC attending the same Unit...

 

[HAL Pilot]

And at OCS you're definitely at the bottom of the Navy totem pole, calling anyone wearing a uniform "Sir" or "Ma'am."

But at OCS, I think you are an Officer Candidate not a Midshipman. An Officer Candidate is an enlisted rank. I remember my rate at AOCS was AOC(N)2 or Aviation Officer Candidate (Naval Flight Officer) Second Class. The pilots were AOC(P)2s.

 

[HAL Pilot]

The guy/gal from MIT NROTC unit, puts on their uniform, attends a town hall with SECDEF. They harrass SECDEF, call him all sorts of names and etc etc etc. Boston treats them as heros, Boston Globe et al simply adore them. Certainly they violated no civil laws in their "free speech". If they violated no civil laws, what recourse does the Navy have? Or should have? But okay, let us forget the uniform, they are in mufti? What then?

When they signed their NROTC contract, they signed up as a Naval Reservists. They can be recalled to active duty and then the full hammer of the UCMJ can be smashed upon their clueless skulls.

 

[mjcIII]

you do realize that almost anyone can post "facts" on wikipidia. It is one of the most misleading internet encyclopidias out there.

 

[Gatordev]

When they signed their NROTC contract, they signed up as a Naval Reservists. They can be recalled to active duty and then the full hammer of the UCMJ can be smashed upon their clueless skulls.

Bingo. While I understand the CNET quote High Dimension quoted, the above info is important to remember.

So, can we end this? Mids do rate deference from the E's. Whether they get is something different.

 

[FMRAM]

But at OCS, I think you are an Officer Candidate not a Midshipman. An Officer Candidate is an enlisted rank. I remeber my rate at AOCS was AOC(N)2 or Aviation Officer Candidate (Naval Flight Officer) Second Class. The pilots were AOC(P)2s.

There are also Midshipmen ranks of 1'st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th class. OCs are not enlisted. Some OCs were enlisted, but they are OCs. That is why they wear OC insignia, not enlisted.

 

[MasterBates]

OC's at OCS are enlisted in the legal term. Not normal rates, but it is a rate.

OC2 is the rate for the "normal" OC's off the street. A PN1 would become a OC1, an ETC (one of my OCS roomates) became an OCC.

 

[FMRAM]

OC's at OCS are enlisted in the legal term. Not normal rates, but it is a rate.

OC2 is the rate for the "normal" OC's off the street. A PN1 would become a OC1, an ETC (one of my OCS roomates) became an OCC.

Thanks for the correction. I don't have any knowledges of OCS only the STA-21 program.

 

[HAL Pilot]

There are also Midshipmen ranks of 1'st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th class. OCs are not enlisted. Some OCs were enlisted, but they are OCs. That is why they wear OC insignia, not enlisted.

My AOCS contract says "enlisted in the United States Navy Reserve in the rate of Aviation Officer Candidate (Naval Flight Officer) Second Class (AOC(N)2) / E-5".

Block 28 of the DD214 I recieved from AOCS prior to commissioning says "Discharged from enlisted status to accept commission."

The official document I have calculating my total active duty service for computing my retirement includes my AOCS time under "Enlisted Service".

 

[MasterBates]

HAL,

My DD214 is identical, except for time in Reserves/BDCP. Rate at time of discharge, OC2.

 

[FMRAM]

My AOCS contract says "enlisted in the United States Navy Reserve in the rate of Aviation Officer Candidate (Naval Flight Officer) Second Class (AOC(N)2) / E-5".

Block 28 of the DD214 I recieved from AOCS prior to commissioning says "Discharged from enlisted status to accept commission."

The official document I have calculating my total active duty service for computing my retirement includes my AOCS time under "Enlisted Service".

I stand corrected. :icon_wink

 

[Brett327]

For the love of god, people.

Brett