More trouble at the Academy

[phrogpilot73]

If the girls want to play with the boys, they might get punched once in a while - that's all.

I agree... I can tell you that they called me on Sunday and evening and asked me what I thought. I told them that they should press charges. This was when the kid was facing just getting fried (which any boat schooler will tell you isn't that big a deal). He's now facing UCMJ charges. Anyway, it's immaterial that she was female, just like Brett said - although she shouldn't expect to get punched. It was a fight between the accused and some civvies. The mids that I sponsor came up and tried to break it up, identifying themselves as Firsties... So while yeah, she may get punched - in this case, she shouldn't expect to.

 

[DanMa1156]

. This was when the kid was facing just getting fried (which any boat schooler will tell you isn't that big a deal). He's now facing UCMJ charges. .

Correct

and

holy sh!t That is serious.


I'm out, have a good weekend all.

 

[BlackBearHockey]

If the girls want to play with the boys, they might get punched once in a while - that's all.

Brett

I was wondering/thinking along the same lines. Is the case going to be handled that much differently because of the gender difference? You'd think it wouldn't even have made print if the headline was "Two Midshipmen were in a fight"...

 

[FlyMikeFly]

Why is the gender of the punchee relevant?

Brett

How about because a male punching a female, no matter what the scenario, is pretty cowardly, especially from someone who attends a school that supposedly produces top notch officers.

 

[HH-60H]

How about because a male punching a female, no matter what the scenario, is pretty cowardly, especially from someone who attends a school that supposedly produces top notch officers.

Ok, ok, let's not get this all started up.

 

[BlackBearHockey]

How about because a male punching a female, no matter what the scenario, is pretty cowardly, especially from someone who attends a school that supposedly produces top notch officers.

I definitely agree with your thoughts... however... It gets me thinking of "equal rights but special privileges." I'm in no way advocating violence against females, but at the same time, it's commonplace to hear cries of equality yet as soon as something happens, it's back to examining the vast differences.

 

[HH-60H]

The reason the article is titled that way is because the Navy Times wants to capitalize on the recent (last couple years) problems that the Academy has had with women. To be clear, not a problem with women themselves, but the sexual assualts, the poor EEO climate, etc.

 

[WheelsUpHeelsUp]

In article 1 Ole Skippy Fierro seems to be asshole of the month. I suspect he'll get his eventually. He ought to be relieved of command or have the shit knocked out of him.

Article 2, Sugar Britches and her friend need to learn to butt out of drunks fighting. Best make the phone call and let Anne Arundel Co deal with it. A night in Millersville would have worked just fine for the ones drinking the Joe Paluka beer.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Article 2, Sugar Britches and her friend need to learn to butt out of drunks fighting. Best make the phone call and let Anne Arundel Co deal with it. A night in Millersville would have worked just fine for the ones drinking the Joe Paluka beer.

Disagree wholeheartedly. They conducted themselves as soon-to-be commissioned officers should. They came up, identified themselves as Firsties (senior to the individuals in the fight) told them to leave, and then started to call Main O to report them. That's when they were assaulted because the Youngster didn't want to get in trouble. They didn't want to call Annapolis Police immediately, because they were concerned about the Naval Academy looking bad in the newspaper.

And calling her sugar britches really offends me...

 

[HH-60H]

Disagree wholeheartedly. They conducted themselves as soon-to-be commissioned officers should. They came up, identified themselves as Firsties (senior to the individuals in the fight) told them to leave, and then started to call Main O to report them. That's when they were assaulted because the Youngster didn't want to get in trouble. They didn't want to call Annapolis Police immediately, because they were concerned about the Naval Academy looking bad in the newspaper.

And calling her sugar britches really offends me...

Concur with phrog73....

So, by your logic Wheels, if this was a port call, and saw some blue shirts getting in a fight, an officer should not intervene?

 

[scoober78]

Disagree wholeheartedly. They conducted themselves as soon-to-be commissioned officers should. They came up, identified themselves as Firsties (senior to the individuals in the fight) told them to leave, and then started to call Main O to report them. That's when they were assaulted because the Youngster didn't want to get in trouble. They didn't want to call Annapolis Police immediately, because they were concerned about the Naval Academy looking bad in the newspaper.

And calling her sugar britches really offends me...

Concur completely...

And calling her sugar britches really offends me...

And this, with all due respect to your experience, this is waaaay out of line. I hope it was just a poor word choice.

 

[WheelsUpHeelsUp]

Disagree wholeheartedly. They conducted themselves as soon-to-be commissioned officers should. They came up, identified themselves as Firsties (senior to the individuals in the fight) told them to leave, and then started to call Main O to report them. That's when they were assaulted because the Youngster didn't want to get in trouble. They didn't want to call Annapolis Police immediately, because they were concerned about the Naval Academy looking bad in the newspaper.

And calling her sugar britches really offends me...

Was the CO acting as an old commissioned officer? Just curious because no one seems to care about that incident.
While they might soon be shiny new ensigns or 2nd louies were they trained to deal with drunks unarmed and undermanned? At one time it seemed only the truly elite went to Annapolis. Maybe I was under a false illusion or something, seems these new members are nothing special outside of academic achievement. Having grown up in AAco I always thought it to be a special place. There's nothing worse to deal with than a drunk when you're sober. The jerk in question proved that. Often drunks will bond against authority even if they were fighting each other a few seconds ago.
Sorry about Sugar Britches but I was being polite, in the "real" world that would almost be a compliment.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Was the CO acting as an old commissioned officer? Just curious because no one seems to care about that incident.
While they might soon be shiny new ensigns or 2nd louies were they trained to deal with drunks unarmed and undermanned? At one time it seemed only the truly elite went to Annapolis. Maybe I was under a false illusion or something, seems these new members are nothing special outside of academic achievement. Having grown up in AAco I always thought it to be a special place. There's nothing worse to deal with than a drunk when you're sober. The jerk in question proved that. Often drunks will bond against authority even if they were fighting each other a few seconds ago.
Sorry about Sugar Britches but I was being polite, in the "real" world that would almost be a compliment.

I didn't make a comment about the CO because he will quietly go away, as he should.

I'm with HH-60H on this one, as a young officer - do you walk away because you haven't received the "training" to break up a fight? No, you don't - you gather up the moral courage to walk up, identify yourself as someone in a position of authority (it's how the military chain of command works) and demand they cease and desist.

With your logic, because the accused were drunk - they should have walked away, quietly calling the Annapolis police department. Probably in the fleet you would stress that they walk away, or that a 3rd Class Petty Officer punching a Ensign is OK because he's drunk. It doesn't work that way.

An no, in the "real world" calling an officer candidate Sugar Britches is not a compliment, nor is it appropriate. There's no way you can argue that one.

 

[WheelsUpHeelsUp]

I didn't make a comment about the CO because he will quietly go away, as he should.

I'm with HH-60H on this one, as a young officer - do you walk away because you haven't received the "training" to break up a fight? No, you don't - you gather up the moral courage to walk up, identify yourself as someone in a position of authority (it's how the military chain of command works) and demand they cease and desist.

With your logic, because the accused were drunk - they should have walked away, quietly calling the Annapolis police department. Probably in the fleet you would stress that they walk away, or that a 3rd Class Petty Officer punching a Ensign is OK because he's drunk. It doesn't work that way.

An no, in the "real world" calling an officer candidate Sugar Britches is not a compliment, nor is it appropriate. There's no way you can argue that one.

It was pretty OBVIOUS that the chain of command means nothing to these idiots therefore it doesn't always work. It's also obvious their career or education doesn't mean a hell of a lot either in a drunken state. How old are these kids, 22 or 23? Courage or bravado from the would be helpers, which is it? My stand remains the same, call either SP or the cops, both are trained and equipped for the job. As good as todays all volunteer force seems to be perhaps standards are not as good as the draft days for Annapolis, I dunno, maybe you can enlighten because cheating, fighting or murder just was unheard of.
Nope, in the fleet it's not OK for a 3rd class to assault anyone. SP presence is pretty evident most places and the local authorities give FAR worse consequence then what the Navy will dish out. That works as a great deterrent to leave the locals alone.
As far as the female soon to be officer goes. She is what she is, she deserves some respect but she better get some common sense if she wants to avoid the circumstances she became involved in. I suggest they make their phone call and steer away from 5 drunks duking it out. Smart people don't fvck with drunks unless they know they can handle the situation.
No disrespect intended to anyone but I am in the "real world", two Middies with no "real world" experience on liberty are not.

 

[phrogpilot73]

It was pretty OBVIOUS that the chain of command means nothing to these idiots therefore it doesn't always work. It's also obvious their career or education doesn't mean a hell of a lot either in a drunken state. How old are these kids, 22 or 23? Courage or bravado from the would be helpers, which is it? My stand remains the same, call either SP or the cops, both are trained and equipped for the job. As good as todays all volunteer force seems to be perhaps standards are not as good as the draft days for Annapolis, I dunno, maybe you can enlighten because cheating, fighting or murder just was unheard of.
Nope, in the fleet it's not OK for a 3rd class to assault anyone. SP presence is pretty evident most places and the local authorities give FAR worse consequence then what the Navy will dish out. That works as a great deterrent to leave the locals alone.
As far as the female soon to be officer goes. She is what she is, she deserves some respect but she better get some common sense if she wants to avoid the circumstances she became involved in. I suggest they make their phone call and steer away from 5 drunks duking it out. Smart people don't fvck with drunks unless they know they can handle the situation.
No disrespect intended to anyone but I am in the "real world", two Middies with no "real world" experience on liberty are not.

You're showing your ignorance in a number of matters with this post.

First, there's not Shore Patrol at the Naval Academy.

Second, a third class midshipman assaulting a first class midshipman is pretty much the same thing as a petty officer assaulting an officer.

Finally, apparently in your day it was OK for an officer to not show the moral courage to do something about a drunken brawl in port. Hell, it's best to let the Italian cops arrest the sailors as long as I'm not involved. That's your argument at least, and it's insulting to me and I think any one who's ever led Marines and Sailors.

I refuse to answer any of your antiquated, unprofessional and incorrect posts from now on.