New Gouge on Pilot Careers, straight from the 0-7 level

[El Cid]

We just had a brief on Naval Aviation in general with special emphasis on manning and personnel.

Here are some interesting highlights:

1) There is a plan to take warfare qualed E-4's to E-6's and turn them into Helo flying WO's. This is to decrease the log jam at the DH and Command levels. The WO's will have longer sea tours than JO's and fill flying billets only. The plan is supposed to go into effect this January so keep your eyes open.

2) The way to command is not linked strictly to FRS shore duties. If you are in the top ~10% at sea you can do a non-flying shore duty. On the other hand, if you are "just in the pack" you need to do a RAG shore duty followed by a disassociated sea duty or CAG staff before DH tour.

3) Helo's are going to take on more and more "strike" duties. Mostly police like escorts of ships and CBG's in the future. For example a Helo-CO deploying with his/her squadron to a CBG and farming out Helos to the CV and small boys. While underway the different Helos on all the ships will be coordinated by the CO from the CV for fleet protection while the fixed wings are on mission.

4)The chances for pilot or NFO pick up for OCS guys is going to ZERO or pretty damn close to it. Not forever but atleast this year and maybe next.

There's a lot of other things I heard at the brief but those were the most interesting to me. Also, my head is still swimming from all the new info so there are, I'm sure, things that I am forgeting right now. Please feel free to ask anything specific or IM me. I hope you guys and gals find this useful.

 

[Lonestar155]

We just had a brief on Naval Aviation in general with special emphasis on manning and personnel.


4)The chances for pilot or NFO pick up for OCS guys is going to ZERO or pretty damn close to it. Not forever but atleast this year and maybe next.

.

SERIOUS? can that be right?

 

[Lonestar155]

Pat, didn't you go through ocs?? Many pilots went through the same process. What if you were my age and your only option was OCS, but you found out they eliminated pilot slots? Im just a little confused.

 

[El Cid]

It's not officially zero, but the recruiter for pilot manning said that the slots for Academy and ROTC are highly competitive and that OCS would get few if any. So you need to have an impressive case to get a pilot slot. It's not that there aren't any, it's that they are going to be the most competitive ever because there's only going to be a few. Not to discourage anybody, but he said that it would take a very serious minded person. If that's you, make sure you have the strongest case possible when you apply.

It's not impossible, it's just going to be more competitive than ever.

 

[bch]

Pat, didn't you go through ocs?? Many pilots went through the same process. What if you were my age and your only option was OCS, but you found out they eliminated pilot slots? Im just a little confused.

OCS is meant to fill the gaps after NROTC and USNA select. If they are predicting a very competitive app process for those guys, that typically means that they will not need as many from the OCS pool.

 

[Fred]

Who was the admiral who gave the brief?

 

[El Cid]

RADM Kilkenney, he's the guy that's in charge of Personnel Management for all of Aviation.

 

[flashypants]

RADM Kilkenney, he's the guy that's in charge of Personnel Management for all of Aviation.

"Oh my god! They Kilkenney! You b@stards!"

Sorry, in a bit of a goofy mood.

 

[El Cid]

"Oh my god! They Kilkenney! You b@stards!"

Sorry, in a bit of a goofy mood.

Yes. Yes you are.

 

[theblakeness]

Im curious what is causing them to go to some of these measures. Number 1 specifically. Is this an indefinate change or only temporary? I just keep thinking Army as I read that.

I figure number 4 has a lot to do with how overmanned the Navy is.

 

[Eagle32]

"1) There is a plan to take warfare qualed E-4's to E-6's and turn them into Helo flying WO's. This is to decrease the log jam at the DH and Command levels. The WO's will have longer sea tours than JO's and fill flying billets only. The plan is supposed to go into effect this January so keep your eyes open."

I'll believe it when I see it. Any rotor-heads in the fleet care to comment on this one??!?!

"3) Helo's are going to take on more and more "strike" duties. Mostly police like escorts of ships and CBG's in the future. For example a Helo-CO deploying with his/her squadron to a CBG and farming out Helos to the CV and small boys. While underway the different Helos on all the ships will be coordinated by the CO from the CV for fleet protection while the fixed wings are on mission."

I wouldn't call it "strike" missions, I'll buy SSC and SUCAP, and that has already happened with the FLIR/Hellfire upgrade for the 60B. The HSL bubbas are the ones talking about realigning themselves to deploy as a squadron within the airwing vice multiple squadron dets within the CSG or DESRON. You had to leave out the P-3s. We provide tons of hours to CSGs, ESGs, and other floating groups of grey metal, for SSC and SUCAP also. Fun.

 

[El Cid]

Im curious what is causing them to go to some of these measures. Number 1 specifically. Is this an indefinate change or only temporary? I just keep thinking Army as I read that.

I figure number 4 has a lot to do with how overmanned the Navy is.

1) The reason that I was given was that they wanted to improve the chances of command for Helo officers. He said that Helo chances of command "are the most abysmal" of all the aviation communities.

2) It was a gouge from several of the pilots (O-4 and O-5) and the detailer.

3) This has been in the works for a while. It's just a result of the new force protection and antiterrorism mindset of the top brass. To the best of my knowledge it will fall on the shoulders of the MH-60S and R guys of tomorrow.

4) High retention. Historically retention has been 35-45% in the past couple of years it has been 55-65%

Eagle32:
Listen, I'm not trying to run for office so I don't need you to believe me or not. As far as the information goes, I'm just trying to give people a heads up because this stuff is really neat and exciting.

As far as using the term strike... that's why I put it in quotations. I didn't mean it literally. I was just trying to keep my post short and simple. One role that the Helo squadrons will take on (in the future) is that of another layer of fleet protection that deploys. Hey I'm all for all communities but the P-3's aren't exactly able to sit on the flight deck at alert ready status. The RADM was making a case for increasing the flexibility and ability of fleet protection. So yes semantically I was wrong and strike was the wrong word to use, but it got the basic meaning across. The interesting part is that the squadron as a whole or at least in large part will deploy across the fleet and be armed. When the fixed wings go out they will launch as SAR ready and FP ready... very cool if you ask me!

 

[webmaster]

He said that Helo chances of command "are the most abysmal" of all the aviation communities.

Obviously P3's aren't factored in the picture once again, the latest figures from the detailers for Eagle, Zab and my YGs brings the thought of "cold day in hell" for our percentages/availibility at command.

El Cid, don't think Eagle was knocking you, but you have to understand, we hear 101 different proposals on what the grand plan for the fleet is. I would definitely think that this would be front page news for the helo community and one of the several on the board could shed some light on this for us.

 

[Flash]

Obviously P3's aren't factored in the picture once again, the latest figures from the detailers for Eagle, Zab and my YGs brings the thought of "cold day in hell" for our percentages/availibility at command.

The worst rates for selection right now are the P-3's. The brief on the actual numbers is on the Bupers website, I posted it earlier(too lazy to look for it again). The helo guys are suffering but not as bad as VP.

As for the WO proposal, I will believe it when I see it. I have seen proposals that were put forward and talked about by everyone only to pass away a quiet death the further it goes up the chain. In my present job, I have seen several things die at a pretty high level, even after making it past a bunch of flag officers. There are many people who have a stake in big decisions like this and it takes only one to scuttle it. It would also be a very big cultural change in the Navy that has only been tried on a small scale before. The work behind creating the new infastructure and training path might be too much for the bean counters to bear (one of those people who have a say). You can't just inject some E-4's and E-6's into flight school right now, they would have to create a WO OCS for those guys to go through (regular OCS?). Currently new WO's and LDO's go through a 'fork and knife school' (their words, not mine) which is a couple weeks of classroom work. Good for the the former Cheifs going through but not some E-4/5/6's about to go to flight school.

 

[nittany03]

Back in WWII and Korea, they gave wings to enlisted folks and called them Naval Aviation Pilots. I'm surprised if they're talking about making new Warrants that resurrecting that path hasn't come up yet. If we can trust the enlisted guys to handle nuclear reactors, why not helos?