New Gouge on Pilot Careers, straight from the 0-7 level

[El Cid]

Webmaster:
It's cool. I'm not spunup I promise and I can understand the "navyspam" that passes through here. I didn't mean to sound like this is set in stone. The RADM did say something about P-3's but he said it would take something more than creative manning to crack that nut.

Flash:
From what I understand the RADM was going to take a sample group first maybe 5-10 guys and send them through an aviation oriented WO course then send them to flight school. He said that they didn't want jo-schmo out of high school but guys with warfare quals who know what the Navy is all about. The RADM made it sound like it was on its way but you're right ADM Clark could at the last moment kill it or any number of people. The point is that they are not looking at doing buisness the same way anymore. All "new" aircraft and all "new" manning. It's an exciting and scary time to be in the Navy... I think more exciting than scary.

 

[HAL Pilot]

RADM Kilkenney, he's the guy that's in charge of Personnel Management for all of Aviation.

My class officer at AOCS in 1983 was a LT Kilkenny, an A-6 BN. Is this the same guy?

He was an a-hole with no sense of humor. He almost poped a gasket when we started sword fighting in front of the battlion building as candidate officers during rehersal for commissioning...

 

[bobbybrock]

As a Army CWO3 aviator looking from the outside in, it seems like WO aviators in the Navy might be a mistake. In the Army we are going through a very large change and many think the aviator warrant could be gone soon. Many think we are on our way to becoming LDO's.
It seems to me like it would be a huge culture shock in your community. It will be intresting to see what happens.
By the way, didn't the Navy have LDO instructor pilots back in the 80's and 90's

 

[Steve Wilkins]

When the fixed wings go out they will launch as SAR ready and FP ready...

They do this already though.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

If we can trust the enlisted guys to handle nuclear reactors, why not helos?

Sorry, but the enlisted guys don't do jack with the reactor or its systems without the EOOW's permission. It's an accountability thing.

 

[El Cid]

They do this already though.

Yes I understand that. What I was trying to say is that (or at least what I understood the brief to say) the Helo's will be going out in larger numbers and the CO not an OIC will go with them.

Sorry, but the enlisted guys don't do jack with the reactor or its systems without the EOOW's permission. It's an accountability thing.

Yeah but you would be surprised at how often the ENS EOOW is stopped from doing something phenominally stupid by an enlisted sailor (even junior sailors). As long as they are trained well what does it matter where they come from?

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Ok, then, why not allow the enlisted nukes to stand EOOW (on a nuke plant)....since they know the plant much better.

 

[El Cid]

Ok, then, why not allow the enlisted nukes to stand EOOW (on a nuke plant)....since they know the plant much better.

They do on CVN plants. I had two LPO's and a LCPO that headed out last year that were EOOW qualed at prototype. After they qual EOOW at prototype they start instructing JO's on their quals. After their shore tour they go to the CVN and requal as a surface EOOW except I think they call it Reactor Plant Watch Officer (RPWO). I can't remember exactly but it's essentially the same job

 

[Pcola04/30]

The Navy did have LDO IP's......Some of the sim instructors in corpus were enlisted, put in their package and whala.....they were T-34 IP's. And all they ever flew was the Mighty Trim Whore. (Then they retired and probably make twice the money for 1/4 the work)

 

[Steve Wilkins]

No they don't. Mostly O-4 (Principal Assistant types) and nuke LDO's stand EOOW on the CVN. The Divos stand watch as RPWO down in the plants.

I didn't say why not allow the enlisted to qualify EOOW. I said why not allow them to stand EOOW. There is a difference.

 

[Pcola04/30]

ON the EOOW thread Jack.....when I was a SPU at charleston a few sh!t hot first classes were in EOOW quals.....so I dont think it is a hard and fast rule that only the Khaki man has control over pulling rods.
From my experience (granted I was only a nuke for 4.5 years, but that is long enough to to know a little about a lot and a lot about little) some of the best EOOW's I worked with were Chiefs or First classes.......but these guys were like the top 10% of their peer group. Their were some of my enlisted counterparts that should never be allowed to hold the keys.....Not sure where I'm going with this but I agree it shouldn't matter if a guy is enlisted or officer....just about anybody can be trained to be a pilot(I'm living proof). But if you have a pretty good screening process i.e. college (demonstrates at least a marginaly responsible, mature, dedicated individuals) Isn't it better than no screening process.....
Lets be realist here I've seen plenty of "review boards" that were comprised of some lazy ass LT who had better things to do than his JOB and as a result the "screening process" (in this case I'm refeering to enlisted to officer packages) was virtually non-existent. If your Evals were good that is all that he needed to see.....which on the surface may seem sufficient but think about it....who normally writes junior sailors evals? I would bet a months pay that almost every junior sailor eval is written by his leading first or possibly by the sailor himself and merely reviewed by his first.....So you see the potential for problems .......anyway what I'm trying to say in a retardedly long winded post is that our current pipline is a screening process (college to wings) and I'm not so sure it would be a good idea to change.
But what the hell do I know......just my thoughts after a few beers. Peace.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

This is getting way off track now. I am not saying that enlisted cannot qualify as a nuke EOOW, but they're not gonna take the watch. Naval Reactors would have a sh!t fit over that. Again, it comes back to why we have commissioned officers in the first place.....leadership and accountability.

 

[Pcola04/30]

This is getting way off track now. I am not saying that enlisted cannot qualify as a nuke EOOW, but they're not gonna take the watch. Naval Reactors would have a sh!t fit over that. Again, it comes back to why we have commissioned officers in the first place.....leadership and accountability.

I think what your saying is true for the submarine fleet. No enlisted man has ever taken the keys and signed himself into the logbook. I think the surface fleet has a different policy. It might vary command to command but I'm pretty sure some of the senior chiefs I stood watch with (they were signed into the logs as the EOOW and calling the shots....granted this was prototype) stood the watch on CVN's or the cruisers before they got decommed. Or possibly this was something that took place due to manning issues and does not occur anymore.

Enough with the side show I'll stopbeating a dead horse

 

[ghost]

Back to deploying to the CVN ....

HS squadrons have ALLWAYS deployed as a squadron to the carrier. While they think that CSAR is their primary mission, most of thier time is spent in starboard D waiting for someone to eject. They also have the dipping sonar in case an enemy sub manages to sneak within 50nm of the CV.

HSL squadrons traditionally det out to DDGs, CGs, and FFGs individually. However, a west coast HSL squadron is currently deployed with a CVBG. Most of the aircraft are still on dets to the small boys. An HS squadron is still deployed on the carrier. It is just a slightly different orginization to accomplish the same mission.

The best way to increase command opportunities in the helo community would be to decrease the size of a squadron. The jet guys went to small squadrons and helos could follow that path.

ghost

 

[El Cid]

HS squadrons have ALLWAYS deployed as a squadron to the carrier. While they think that CSAR is their primary mission, most of thier time is spent in starboard D waiting for someone to eject. They also have the dipping sonar in case an enemy sub manages to sneak within 50nm of the CV.

Right I understand that, but now they will have permanently attached forward pointing weapons, 50 cal. and/or missles. They will be ramping up their FP/AT roles that's all. I'm not saying this is ground breaking but that it is increasing. Also the HSL guys will be taking on the ability to do this as well (as they update their airframes from B's to R's or S's).