New UAV pilots 'winged'

[Ave8tor]

Ever have a 172 fly straight and level through the traffic pattern at an air station?

Or through a low-level MOA while it was hot? Absolutely. However I don't think stick experience will matter if some knucklehead unknowingly flies into an active CAS area. The dumbass got himself into a bad spot and fancy flying is not going to get the UAV out of the danger area, just a heading and buster. I doubt near mid-airs will increase (given the same number of UAVs remain in the area) just because there is not an experienced pilot at the controls. With all the tools and tech available, I'm sure available SA will be the same for someone who has selected from Primary, and someone who goes through this abbreviated course.

 

[scoolbubba]

Aren't they always going to be "behind" their peers though? Even if they go to a manned platform for follow-ons, when they are getting their initial form/section, yatta, yatta...their peers have been there, done that. Seems like they might be the "odd-balls" right out of the gate. As caste-oriented as the AF is, these poor bastards really are bastards!

It seems putting them in inexpensive fixed-wings on the side to have some kind of currency at Creech would be money wellspent. Maybe some T-6's?

I wouldn't think it would make them any more oddball than their other 3 year behind brethren...FAIPs, besides their low hours. Your idea to add a currency program to their UAV job would probably increase job satisfaction (therefore it would be summarily dismissed) and bring them even more in line with the rest of their oddball peers.

Has anyone even opened that can of worms yet... counting hours as PIC of a UAV?

 

[vick]

First of all "pilots without wings" are NOT pilots! They are Operators akin to Radar Operators, so "wing" devices are not appropriate. Given the USAF appetite for pin devices, perhaps an operator console with Kiwi Bird wings (cause they don't fly either!).:icon_tong

This is nothing new for the AF - it wouldn't surprise me if they gave the guy swabbing the head some kind of wings and told him he's a member of the 69th Janitorial Services Squadron.

I have heard rumblings about UAV Operators being recommended for Air Medals/DFCs for uniquely successful strikes! If so, that is/would be a corruption of the military awards system and a slap in the face to Military Aviators/Air Crewmen who have received these prestigious awards.
My $.02 BzB

They're already well down this road, it's embarrassing when you hear how little some of these guys have done to earn their five rows of fruit salad.

It's just a completely different culture - don't try to make sense of it.

 

[HackerF15E]

Do they really need "air sense?" It seems a waste to actually put someone through extensive flight training when he won't actually fly anything.

Don't forget that the "thing" at the other end of his workstation is a real aircraft that is sharing airspace with other airplanes with people in them.

Hell yes they need air sense.

 

[HackerF15E]

Secondly, regarding flight pay, if extra monthly $$$ is considered for this duty, it should NOT be called "flight pay".

In the AF, it's called 'Aviation Career Incentive Pay', so it actually isn't called "flight pay" at all.

Thirdly, I have heard rumblings about UAV Operators being recommended for Air Medals/DFCs for uniquely successful strikes! If so, that is/would be a corruption of the military awards system and a slap in the face to Military Aviators/Air Crewmen who have received these prestigious awards.
My $.02 BzB

I've heard this rumor posted before on numerous forums...I have yet to see any evidence of any UAV operator being awarded any medal for *valor* for actions they performed while operating a UAV.

Until I see some kind of evidence, it's just chaff.

 

[jpm269]

I really doubt the guys selected to control the UAV's will be transferred to manned aircraft. At the end of their tour, I really believe that the Air Force will tell them to stay on for another. The UAS is an in demand resource and the number of these systems are increasing. I think these guys just got the shaft.

 

[Flash]

In the AF, it's called 'Aviation Career Incentive Pay', so it actually isn't called "flight pay" at all.

Stop being so Chair Force-ish, it's flight pay to everyone who gets it.

I've heard this rumor posted before on numerous forums...I have yet to see any evidence of any UAV operator being awarded any medal for *valor* for actions they performed while operating a UAV.

Until I see some kind of evidence, it's just chaff.

The only instance that I have ever seen of anyone getting any type of medal for flying UAV's was a guy who got an Aerial Achievement Medal back in the 90's. While there was an Army Times article claiming that Army UAV guys could get DFC's and Air Medals it was quickly quashed by Army officials who said that the UAV types had to physically be on an aircraft to do it, effectively negating them getting the medals for UAV ops.

So I am with Hacker on this one, until someone shows me some proof I call BS.

 

[phrogdriver]

"Air sense" might be the wrong word, but honestly, does a UAV operator need to know how to get a T-6 to touchdown at the numbers? Does he need to know precision aerobatics? Does he need to know how to do a TACAN point-to-point on the fly? He needs to know about RI concepts and the airways system and so forth, but only in the context that he will interact with them. I don't know, but would assume, that the people designing the syllabus had enough foresight to keep what was appropriate while shedding some of the pilot stuff that doesn't apply.

 

[Ducky]

Or through a low-level MOA while it was hot? Absolutely. However I don't think stick experience will matter if some knucklehead unknowingly flies into an active CAS area. The dumbass got himself into a bad spot and fancy flying is not going to get the UAV out of the danger area, just a heading and buster. I doubt near mid-airs will increase (given the same number of UAVs remain in the area) just because there is not an experienced pilot at the controls. With all the tools and tech available, I'm sure available SA will be the same for someone who has selected from Primary, and someone who goes through this abbreviated course.

But think of how much better your see and avoid doctrine is now compared to when you first started flying. Less flying expeerience means less quality in communications and airspace operations. Planes can fly themselves so I'm not worried about stick skills, but what I am worried about is the UAV operator with limited time who booms through your section or division with complete lack of SA and Comms.

Don't know if anyone has brought this up or not, but I have been wondering what will happen if we ever fight a technologically savy country such as China. What happens when they Jam our shit or completely disable/takeover our UAVs and use them against us, or blow up some of our satellites. I know it seems far fetched, but if we can jam peoples shit up with prowlers growlers, whats to say it can't happen to us.

 

[zab1001]

But think of how much better your see and avoid doctrine is now compared to when you first started flying. Less flying expeerience means less quality in communications and airspace operations. Planes can fly themselves so I'm not worried about stick skills, but what I am worried about is the UAV operator with limited time who booms through your section or division with complete lack of SA and Comms.

Do you really think deconfliction ISN'T a top priority for the employment of these assets? Think big picture. The asses on the line if this project results in a mid-air are far above our paygrades. The issue is being handled.

Don't know if anyone has brought this up or not, but I have been wondering what will happen if we ever fight a technologically savy country such as China. What happens when they Jam our shit or completely disable/takeover our UAVs and use them against us, or blow up some of our satellites. I know it seems far fetched, but if we can jam peoples shit up with prowlers growlers, whats to say it can't happen to us.

Again, we aren't talking high-school RC aeroclub. There are teams of folks addressing these issues.

 

[HercDriver]

There are teams of folks addressing these issues.

Sure there are...now that it has been brought up on this forum.

 

[zab1001]

Sure there are...now that it has been brought up on this forum.

Well of course, I'm sure JCS briefers hit up AW hourly for insights and intel...

The same way SECNAV mandates his policy on women in the submarine force...

 

[Ducky]

Do you really think deconfliction ISN'T a top priority for the employment of these assets? Think big picture. The asses on the line if this project results in a mid-air are far above our paygrades. The issue is being handled.


Again, we aren't talking high-school RC aeroclub. There are teams of folks addressing these issues.

Perhaps, but a competitive country is also going to have "teams of guys" working on their shit as well. Lets just hope we are either more successful at hacking/jammiing their stuff then they are of ours. Technology is awesome but over reliance can lead to huge problems.

As for deconfliction, Im sure its a priority, but if the Aviator has a midair the Aviator dies, if a UAV operator has a midair the Aviator still dies.

Furthermore, I am even more skeptical of these types of programs when big paygrades, jobs, and politics are all on the line. Excuse me for not putting blind faith into the future of skynet.

Anyone see the movie surrogates lately?

 

[zab1001]

Perhaps, but a competitive country is also going to have "teams of guys" working on their shit as well. Lets just hope we are either more successful at hacking/jammiing their stuff then they are of ours. Technology is awesome but over reliance can lead to huge problems.

I think you can apply the above statement to any system in the inventory in reference to denial of capability. Que sera sera. You will be assimilated...

While we all share your concerns, this is the reality, and "until" there's a major fuckup it's the future. Eat your carrots and keep up the neck stretching.

 

[Cron]

There are teams of folks addressing these issues.

"We have top men working on it right now"