NFO to Pilot

[TurnandBurn55]

HUH??? You must be typing in code .... or I'm not understanding. Maybe E-2 specific ??? The Navy has ALWAYS had aircrewmen (some periods even including enlisted aircrew) who transitioned to Aviator and vice versa .... it sure as heck didn't start in '02 ..... ... it started waaaaaaaa-a-a-a-ay before the acronymn "NFO" was even on the horizon.

In 1996 methinks, after a Tomcat crashed in Tennessee killing the pilot, RIO, and a few folks on the ground... ADM Boorda put an end to NFO-to-pilot transitions. Classic Navy knee-jerk reaction "Jee, the pilot was a former RIO? Well that does it! No more of that business!! That'll show everyone we've made a decisive reaction..."

The NFOs who had already been picked up for transitions at were allowed to complete them, but could only fly multi-piloted aircraft...

 

[HH-60H]

Yes, I think that's when they ended the program. While there are other interesting details in that mishap, I agree that it was a typical knee jerk reaction.

 

[A4sForever]

In 1996 methinks, after a Tomcat crashed in Tennessee killing the pilot, RIO, and a few folks on the ground... ADM Boorda put an end to NFO-to-pilot transitions.........

Ahhhhh, yes. Admiral Boorda's decision ... Admiral Boorda, RIP.

 

[E6286]

Actually, the part of his post that bothered me wasn't his opinion on flying as much as the part about being an NFO being a "Thankless job."

 

[nugget81]

How many "thankless jobs" are out there? There must be hundreds. Take a look at teachers, garbage men, postal workers, and the military in general. Don't let one or two people's opinions get you down. If you give your full 100% and you believe that what you'll be doing will make a difference, that's all you need. You don't need the approval or blessings of others to enjoy your job - you just need the right attitude...

 

[zippy]

Actually, the part of his post that bothered me wasn't his opinion on flying as much as the part about being an NFO being a "Thankless job."

I'll admit the E-2 NFO job carried a lot of responsibility and I'm better off for it, but it was a thankless job in MY OPINION and not very much fun. Hope that clears things up.

It seems that he was commenting on his opinion on a NFO job in a specific platform.

 

[E6286]

Its fine. I am just in the process of searching out the NFO position and what I will be gaining from it. I have heard many say they love the position but I still (even after reading countless threads on it) don't really know what its all about.

In the end, its more about being a Marine to me which is why I ended up applying for NFO instead of SNA to begin with. In hindsight I shoulda stuck with SNA as I am pretty sure I would still be attending 191. However, that isn't what I did so I am just trying to get psyched about NFO. Not lookin to battle here.

 

[Goober]

Lets see...ride in the TUBE of an E-2 or ride in the front (Remember he was an E-2 guy). Hands down, I'd always chose to ride in a seat with a view (& I do in the Prowler as you did in the Tomcat).

ea6bflyr

Well, as someone who's flown in three models (jet and prop, land and carrier), I could care less about a seat with a view. If it was about the view, I'd be in corporate America bucking for a corner office somewhere. I'm here to do this job.

Now, as one who "rides in the tube of an E-2," I for one can tell you that I get bored stupid sitting up front in an E-2. Yeah, it's okay I suppose; and its usually for short periods while we've got some yahoo onboard for a fam that includes a few mins in back so they can see the electrons at work. Wonderful. Now get the hell out of my CIC so I can get some real work done. I'll take being in charge "riding in the tube" over flying flat turns from the front seat for hours on end. Not knocking our guys - they do pick up some slack for us when things get busy, but if I had a dollar for every time my front seat crew went to a tactical mission debrief with us I'd still need a coupon to afford a Happy Meal. Thanks, I'll take the tube and two anchors over driving the bus.

FYI, there were E-2 NFO-to-pilot transitions long before 2002. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[TurnandBurn55]

Actually, the part of his post that bothered me wasn't his opinion on flying as much as the part about being an NFO being a "Thankless job."

Let's not generalize here... he's not commenting on "an NFO"... he's commenting on one particular NFO community. And E-2 NFO has as little in common with a Rhino or Prowler guy as he does with a stickmonkey.

 

[Powerleverlock]

WOW!! Let me clear the air here. I was an NFO and for the record I had the time of my life in my squadron. That was largely in part to the great group of people I met and worked with during my time there. I am not ashamed of being an NFO. I don't regret my time doing the job AND I am not bashing the NFO billet. As I said earlier in a less specific way I am a better person, officer, and pilot because of it. You are correct in the fact that we have the same ground jobs, fly the same hours, etc. I don't know much about the P-3 community of which you are a member, but for E-2's their are some smaller differences. I can only base these OPINIONS on MY experiences in MY squadron. Strike planning, mission planning are only some of the areas where E-2 NFO's had to bust their butt. Running around the airwing hours before brief trying to figure out everyone's game plan, worry about crypto,etc. is something we had to do on most missions everyday. The pilots would work just as hard if not harder being an LSO, etc AND they had to worry about getting themselves aboard. Instead of worrying about whether the battlegroup data link is working I would rather worry about getting guys aboard the boat or just flying. I also rather enjoy the view of a window. That's just some of the reasons I chose to be a pilot. These are only small examples of my many reasons and this post is already too long. Neither job is more or less important than the other.
To IP: I'm sorry my profile isn't complete, but I literally joined this forum today in order to help the guy in a situation in which I thought I had a unique point of view. BTW, I have only a little more than eight years in the Navy(two extended cruises and two full workups) and I can assure you I AM in the Navy having signed up for enough commitments to make me a lifer when I'm finished. I don't have 28 years of experience like yourself and I appreciate your inputs, but lets keep the personal attacks(I doubt you're even in the Navy, etc.) out of the forum.

 

[A4sForever]

How many "thankless jobs" are out there? .....

One that immediately comes to mind .... being "senior" and trying to suggest advice (based on hard experience) on AW forums and not getting any "blowback" as a result .... :icon_carn .... Ahhhhh , almost makes one long for the pre-internet days when juniors had to show their face(s)....ALOHA

 

[bunk22]

I can tell you it is a MUCH better life as a pilot

What unadulterated bull****! Aviators and NFOs lead exactly the same life in a squadron -- same flight time, same missions, same destinations, same ground jobs, same collaterals, same everything. They lead exactly the same life as department heads. They lead the same life except which seat they sit in on an aircraft.

Therein lies the difference. Flying vs not flying; in control vs not in control. Knowing what I've seen from the E-2 community, being a pilot vs NFO in that field, he now has the better job..........and better life.

 

[Goober]

Instead of worrying about whether the battlegroup data link is working I would rather worry about getting guys aboard the boat or just flying. I also rather enjoy the view of a window. That's just some of the reasons I chose to be a pilot.

Right for lineup. Power...

Neither job is more or less important than the other.

OK 3...nice pass:icon_smil

Sixteen years of this has taught me that one job can't do it without the other. Yeah, some platforms are single seat, some are multi. The days of all single-seat airwings went away pre-WWII. Even if you're in a single-seat, you're not getting to the target alone regardless of mindset. Each needs the other. Weapons guys need pilots to get them to the target, pilots need weapons guys to get TO the target whether they're physically in their plane or not. To argue anything else is shortsighted at best.

Front-seat...back-seat...makes no difference. If it does, you're a prima donna. For some it's a physical qualification, for some it's mental ability, for some it's personal preference. Believe it or not, some people choose one over the other (I'm one of those people). If you like to drive, fine. If you like to ride, fine. Each requires the other.

To de-threadjack this spiral, the original post was about NFO-to-pilot. Yes, it's possible. Is it commonplace? In a word, no. If you're eligible for both, get as much info about each prior to making a decision; and then make an informed decision. Mileage will vary based on who you talk to, but you get what you pay for. Ask only a couple people, and you only get those opinions. Expand your horizons - after all, it's only your career you're looking into.

My $.02 - take it FWIW. I'm still gainfully employed (and happy) either way. Big AW smiles for all...

 

[Brett327]

Not to plagiarize, but:

"Shampoo is better, it goes on first and cleans the hair!"
"No, conditioner is better, it makes the hair silky and smooth!"

Brett (Greatest hair in Naval Air, BTW )

 

[Powerleverlock]

To all who have read this far. I never intended my posts to ridicule or be disrespectful to any person or community. Please accept my apologies if they appeared that way.