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NFO to Pilot

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Really! I call Bum Gouge on that one. (I am so excited, Brett caught dispensing Bum Gouge :D ) I have seen it many times. SWO- NFO/Pilot, NFO-Pilot, Dolphins-Flight Surgeon. In fact, the current CO of the NRD I support wears both SWO pin (earned while ships company on a disassociated tour) and his NFO wings. I knew two guys that were former Army Aviators that wore their Army wings and Naval Aviator wings. You wear the current one in its proper place and the former one on the pocket flap, if I recall.
Actually I think Brett is right. To wear 2, they have to be fron different warfare communities. NFO/SWO, PILOT/SWO, NFO/Sub, etc. We had Transvestfos in both my VP squadrons and neither wore the NFO wings. The guy in my last one tried and was told he had to take them off. Yet I was allowed to wear NFO/SWO.
 

Goober

Professional Javelin Catcher
None
Really! I call Bum Gouge on that one. (I am so excited, Brett caught dispensing Bum Gouge :D ) I have seen it many times. SWO- NFO/Pilot, NFO-Pilot, Dolphins-Flight Surgeon. In fact, the current CO of the NRD I support wears both SWO pin (earned while ships company on a disassociated tour) and his NFO wings. I knew two guys that were former Army Aviators that wore their Army wings and Naval Aviator wings. You wear the current one in its proper place and the former one on the pocket flap, if I recall.
I'll see your bum gouge and raise you one. :)

Per the regs:

Authorized Insignia. The listing below constitutes those breast insignia, alphabetically by category, authorized for wear on the naval uniform. Breast or qualification insignia of other services shall not be worn.

<Insert entire list of every Navy warfare pin insignia imaginable here. NA and NFO are in the same category - Aviation Warfare>

(3) Personnel with multiple qualifications, may wear two insignia, placing one in the primary position and the second in the secondary position, within the following guidelines:

(a) Only one insignia from any single category of insignia listed above <(paragraph 5201.2.a.)> is authorized for wear at the same time.

(b) Warfare qualification insignia take precedence over other qualification insignia and are placed in the primary position.

(c) Two warfare insignia, each from separate warfare categories, are authorized following these rules:

1 The warfare insignia of the specialty in which currently serving will be worn in the primary position.

2 If not currently serving in a warfare specialty, or have not earned the warfare insignia of the specialty in which currently serving: officers will wear the insignia corresponding to their designator, otherwise the warfare insignia earned first in the primary position; all other personnel will wear the warfare insignia earned first in the primary position.

This is why guys like me get two - Aircrew (Naval Aircrew and Marine Combat Aircrew) is it's own category, and also why you see guys w/ wings and SWO pins (and Merchant Marine Sea Chickens).

Later:
(a) Enlisted personnel who qualify for insignia, and are subsequently advanced to officer status continue wearing the enlisted insignia until qualified for a corresponding officer insignia; then replace the enlisted insignia with the officer insignia.

Since there is no corresponding officer insignia for Aircrew, all former aircrewmen continue to wear them as well.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Really! I call Bum Gouge on that one. (I am so excited, Brett caught dispensing Bum Gouge :D ) I have seen it many times. SWO- NFO/Pilot, NFO-Pilot, Dolphins-Flight Surgeon. In fact, the current CO of the NRD I support wears both SWO pin (earned while ships company on a disassociated tour) and his NFO wings. I knew two guys that were former Army Aviators that wore their Army wings and Naval Aviator wings. You wear the current one in its proper place and the former one on the pocket flap, if I recall.
Back at ya, slick ;) The question was not whether one can wear multiple warfare insignia. As someone who proudly wears my NFO and NAC wings, I would never suggest such folly. The question posed was if one can wear both Pilot and NFO wings. The answer is no. To paraphrase Navy uniform regs: "Only one insignia from any single category of insignia is authorized for wear at the same time." That category includes Pilot/NFO/Flight Surgeon/Astronaut/etc. Additionally, warfare insignia from other services are not authorized.

Bad gouge? How dare you! :D

Brett

Edit: Sons of b!tches! (Goober & HAL) :D
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
......Additionally, warfare insignia from other services are not authorized.
Are Army jump wings still O.K. ???

I assume "yes" as I've never heard otherwise. I wore them for 20+ years on my uniforms ..... ???? Haven't worn the Navy uniform for 12+ years, but the occasion might come up in the future in some far, far, better place. :)
 

Chubby

Active Member
Are Army jump wings still O.K. ???

I assume "yes" as I've never heard otherwise. I wore them for 20+ years on my uniforms ..... ???? Haven't worn the Navy uniform for 12+ years, but the occasion might come up in the future in some far, far, better place. :)
Yup, they're still Kosher.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Yup, they're still Kosher.
Hey, I'm just telling you what the Uniform regs say. To be most precise, they say that they can't be worn unless specifically authorized by SECNAV, so do the math on that one.

Brett
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Damn, and I thought I had Brett. I still stand by whay I "saw" though. Unless the regs changed since the mid 80's I had no less the 4 squadron mates wearing both NFO and Pilot wings apparently breaking the regs. Also knew a former Army WO pilot who became a F-14 guy and Army Officer pilot who became a Navy helo guy in a transfer, wear both sets of wings. All the same, I call "UNCLE". Thanks for setting me straight.
 

Goober

Professional Javelin Catcher
None
Oddly enough, I think Marine retreads are authorized to wear both at the same time but not Navy types...strange, huh?
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Damn, and I thought I had Brett. I still stand by whay I "saw" though. Unless the regs changed since the mid 80's I had no less the 4 squadron mates wearing both NFO and Pilot wings apparently breaking the regs. Also knew a former Army WO pilot who became a F-14 guy and Army Officer pilot who became a Navy helo guy in a transfer, wear both sets of wings. All the same, I call "UNCLE". Thanks for setting me straight.

I have known a few NFO to Pilot, NFO to Flight Surgeon and Flight Surgeon to Pilot types in my career and they all confirmed the above, only one set of wings. On their every day uniforms they usually only wore one pair of wings. During formal occasions though, especially wearing Mess Dress, I always saw them wearing both, even though they are not 'authorized' and everyone knew it. They earned them though and and everyone was cool with it. It is one of those rules that is often ignored, like leather jackets with SDB's sans dress jacket, not authorized either but you see ADM's walking around in it.

BTW, NAC wings are not a warfare pin and you can wear it with NFO/Pilot wings, but not the EAWS pin (officially).
 

Goober

Professional Javelin Catcher
None
BTW, NAC wings are not a warfare pin and you can wear it with NFO/Pilot wings, but not the EAWS pin (officially).
Yeah, but what prior would want to wear an EAWS pin as an aviator? A couple of months of part-time study to get your EAWS qual...or a couple of years of full-time study to get your Aircrewman designation...not much comparison. The training pipeline to get my NAC wings took longer than my NFO syllabus and was just as difficult IMO.
 

dodge

You can do anything once.
pilot
Is it still possible as an aviator to earn a swo pin while on a disassociated tour? I recall during my time wandering around the Ronald Reagan that the qual could be earned but you could not wear the pin as to "upset the swos" who couldnt turn around and earn some aviator wings. It may have been bad gouge from the pilot standing watch but nevertheless any know what the deal is?

Furthermore about how long would it take to earn said qualifications?

Thank ye.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Is it still possible as an aviator to earn a swo pin while on a disassociated tour? I recall during my time wandering around the Ronald Reagan that the qual could be earned but you could not wear the pin as to "upset the swos" who couldnt turn around and earn some aviator wings. It may have been bad gouge from the pilot standing watch but nevertheless any know what the deal is?

Furthermore about how long would it take to earn said qualifications?

Thank ye.

Not anymore. A skipper of mine a few years ago had one but he said the SWO's were getting offended when Aviators were earning them on thier diassociated sea tours (he was an ANAV) and got the regs changed so that only a SWO designated officer could earn the pin. He did his tour in the mid to late 80's aand I think they changed the rules shortly after that. I think the SWO pin has only been around since about '75, I guess they ar4 still making up the rules......;)
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Is it still possible as an aviator to earn a swo pin while on a disassociated tour? I recall during my time wandering around the Ronald Reagan that the qual could be earned but you could not wear the pin as to "upset the swos" who couldnt turn around and earn some aviator wings. It may have been bad gouge from the pilot standing watch but nevertheless any know what the deal is?

Furthermore about how long would it take to earn said qualifications?

Thank ye.
I did it on the TR in 1993-94 and I wore them afterward. It was full of politics. I had all the PQS done and had even rode a Spruance in Caribbean for 6-7 months while my carrier was in the shipyard (yeah I know, DUMB thing to do). All I had left was the to have my qualification board. The Reactor Officer, being head SWO, refused to conduct it. After the CO fired him for lying about the status of the plant once to often, the new RO (post command Captain selectee) was on the bridge watching me conn down the Elizabeth River from the yards. He asked me "since you are TAO and OOD qualified, why don't you consider visiting Engineering and the Reactors to get a SWO pin?" Before I could answer, the DCA said "he has all the PQS and quals done, he just needs a board. But he knows he won't pass so he won't schedule one" (the bastard was in cahoots with the old RO). So the new RO says "come down to my cabin after we secure at the pier". I showed up there an hour latter and he had 6 SWOs ranging from LT to CDR waiting for me. 5-6 hours later I was having my SWO pin handed to me by the CO. The DCA promptly met me in the passageway and said "you better not wear that". Well I like a challenge and wore it. About 1/2 the SWOs thought it was great and the other 1/2 hated me for it. But I worked damn hard for that fvcker and I was going to wear it. I spent every off moment on deployment, extended 12 months on the carrier and went 6 months TAD to SWOland to earn the friggin thing. And yeah, there were politics everywhere trying to stop me.

I heard the anti-aviation SWOs eventually won and changed the rules a few years latter. The new RO's philosophy was that any unrestricted line officer could wind up in command of a ship and should have the opportunity to earn SWO as a professional challenge/development. Kind of like the Marines and TBS. I agree. I learned a lot about the Navy and it helped me tremendously on my DH tour interfacing with the battle group and on my joint tour.
 
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