NOSC Shooting

[Recovering LSO]

Islamic extremists though they may have been, were boozing and whoring it up....I guess all is forgiven in the eyes of God when you're acting on His behalf.

So they were in Bahrain? Remember, that big mountain prevents Allah from seeing into the city.... I'm not sure the distinction you're trying to draw really works.

 

[insanebikerboy]

No, I suppose not. American protestants just shoot up elementary schools instead. That's much more tasteful.

That's an interesting statement considering the majority of Americans relate to some relgion, if not necessarily practice it. However, the big distinction is that Islamic extremism uses the Koran and passages from therein in justifying their actions. I can't recall a previous time that an American has used religion as their motivating factor. That said, this is Airwarriors so someone will be along shortly with a link to prove me wrong.

Is this bad enough? Muslims and Christians aren't the only ones who have committed violence in the name of religion recently. The deadliest terrorist attack involving airliners prior to 9/11 was committed by religious extremists, but they weren't Muslim.

Just because these things happen in regions of the world we don't pay as close attention to doesn't mean they don't happen.

I don't disagree that shitty things happen in the world in the name of most all religions. To be fair, I was referring to happenings in America, as was Spekkio.



An interesting point. Westboro Baptist Church justifies their protests through the Bible but they haven't taken the step into killing people because the Bible forbids it. Conversely, the Koran actually encourages killing non-believers. It's quite the distinction.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Agree completely. ISIS would love nothing more than for the U.S. to define this conflict as Christianity vs. Islam or the West vs. Islam. It serves the narrative they're promoting. I can't figure out why people would offer that up to them for no good reason.

I do think policy wise the non-religion vs religion conflict is one of the hardest things to define. If we say it's a religious war, it feeds into the enemy's narrative. If we don't, and focus on the more traditional ideas such as just killing dudes till they give up, then it ignores what is driving the other side.

 

[Spekkio]

That's an interesting statement considering the majority of Americans relate to some relgion, if not necessarily practice it. However, the big distinction is that Islamic extremism uses the Koran and passages from therein in justifying their actions. I can't recall a previous time that an American has used religion as their motivating factor. That said, this is Airwarriors so someone will be along shortly with a link to prove me wrong.

I was more speaking to the absurd notion that we can extrapolate that American Protestant values teach people to commit mass murder of small children based on the actions of a few nutjobs, similar to the absurd notion that the religion of Islam teaches people to fly airplanes into buildings based on the actions of a few nutjobs. Besides, I'm sure if I looked hard enough I can find American serial killers who were motivated by their interpretation of the Bible.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I was more speaking to the absurd notion that we can extrapolate that American Protestant values teach people to commit mass murder of small children based on the actions of a few nutjobs, similar to the absurd notion that the religion of Islam teaches people to fly airplanes into buildings based on the actions of a few nutjobs. Besides, I'm sure if I looked hard enough I can find American serial killers who were motivated by their interpretation of the Bible.

So you were just making shit up because it sounded nice to support your argument? Neat.

 

[Spekkio]

If we don't, and focus on the more traditional ideas such as just killing dudes till they give up, then it ignores what is driving the other side.

Ultimately, I think that looking at the situation as Islam driving the other side is too simplistic. That is the banner which the leadership of these organizations has publicly used to rally people to the cause, but it's not necessarily why young men decide to leave their lives behind and take up arms in a violent conflict. You have poverty, decades of witnessing violent conflict, government oppression, and poor education all thrown into that bag.

We have to get to the root of why extremist groups in our society can't gain significant traction, but goups like Al Qaeda and IS can. I don't think the answer is as simple as 'because Islam.'

 

[Spekkio]

So you were just making shit up because it sounded nice to support your argument? Neat.

No. I just assumed you knew how to use Google.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

No. I just assumed you knew how to use Google.

It doesn't seem like you know how to google, friend. The question wasn't whether Christians commit murder. That's an idiotic strawman. The question is how many terrorists were motivated by Christianity. Specifically, how many elementary schools have been shot up by men motivated by Protestantism. You came close to admitting that you pulled that out of your ass, but now you're crawfishing.

 

[Spekkio]

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/case-docket?keys=&agenda=21&landmark=All

Also, you may have forgotten about these guys, who were killing people regularly as late as the 1980s. Should the rest of the world have used their position to extrapolate every Christian's view of the religion?

 

[Treetop Flyer]

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/case-docket?keys=&agenda=21&landmark=All

Also, you may have forgotten about these guys, who were killing people regularly as late as the 1980s. Should the rest of the world have used their position to extrapolate every Christian's view of the religion?

You posted a broken link and something about the history channel and the KKK. Do you think the KKK's creation and violence were motivated by Christianity? If your answer is yes, there's no need to continue this discussion.

 

[Brett327]

How devout do they need to be to meet your standard of Islamic terrorism?

It's a dig at religion in general. People can proclaim to be devout, or moral, or righteous until they think nobody is watching them. Reference Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, Catholic clergy altar boy-dittling, 9/11 terrorists, UBL porn stash, Chattanooga shooter/stoner, etc.

 

[Spekkio]

You posted a broken link and something about the history channel and the KKK. Do you think the KKK's creation and violence were motivated by Christianity? If your answer is yes, there's no need to continue this discussion.

Sorry for the wonky link. Try this one and search for 'hate and extremism.'

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/case-docket

The KKK is a Christian terrorist organization that has existed in our borders for over 100 years. You might not think that their values are not motivated by Christianity, but they certainly do. And it may not be a school shooting in particular, but killing young black girls in a church bombing sure sounds eerily similar to what IS does.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Sorry for the wonky link. Try this one and search for 'hate and extremism.'

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/case-docket

The KKK is a Christian terrorist organization that has existed in our borders for over 100 years. You might not think that their values are not motivated by Christianity, but they certainly do. And it may not be a school shooting in particular, but killing young black girls in a church bombing sure sounds eerily similar to what IS does.

The KKK is motivated by racism, and you know that. Saying the KKK is motivated by Christianity is like saying the southern states seceded because of Christianity. As for your elementary school example, are you admitting that you made it up, or are you still pretending that a person raised in a Christian environment is the same as the motivation of most Islamic terrorists?

 

[VoodooNova]

It doesn't seem like you know how to google, friend. The question wasn't whether Christians commit murder. That's an idiotic strawman. The question is how many terrorists were motivated by Christianity. Specifically, how many elementary schools have been shot up by men motivated by Protestantism. You came close to admitting that you pulled that out of your ass, but now you're crawfishing.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/12/01/police-austin-shooter-belonged-to-an-ultra-conservative-christian-hate-group/
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=200802170007

Do my examples need to be elementary schools? No. Does Christian Terrorism exist in the US? Yes. If you're curious about attacks in the US, or anywhere else around the world, here is a great resource: Global Terrorism Database.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/12/01/police-austin-shooter-belonged-to-an-ultra-conservative-christian-hate-group/
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=200802170007

Do my examples need to be elementary schools? No. Does Christian Terrorism exist in the US? Yes. If you're curious about attacks in the US, or anywhere else around the world, here is a great resource: Global Terrorism Database.

Considering that is what he claimed, yes. It does.

Thanks for that story. There are psychos all over the place, and they have all kinds of motivations. From the end of your article: "Its members identify themseves as Christians, however, “they are really not Christians in any sense that a christian would accept,” Potok added. Most mainstream American Christians, he said, would find a Phineas Priest’s reading of scripture to be “heretical.” "

A major difference from most "Christian terror groups" and a group like ISIS is that in the case of ISIS, they are more or less interpreting and following their book literally.